Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old May 30, '04, 4:04 pm
ecs 220 ecs 220 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 64
Question Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

Caution: Stupid Question Alert:

Okay, I know that "there's no such thing as a stupid question", but I don't remember this one being addressed in my Catholic education: What exactly is the "...Mystery of this water and wine..." to which the Celebrant refers when he pours a small amount of water into the wine before the Consecration?

I know it was often customary in the 1st-Century Middle East to mix wine and water for drinking, but surely there's more significance to it than that. Might it have something to do with the "Blood and water" that poured from Christ's side as it was pierced? Can the Sacrament be valid without it?

Apologists/experts? How 'bout it?
  #2  
Old May 30, '04, 5:41 pm
Emmaus Emmaus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2004
Posts: 206
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

"By the mystery of this water and wine
may we come to share in the divinity of Christ,
who humbled himself to share in our humanity."

The water added to the wine symbolizes the Divine Second Person taking on our human nature. And through Baptism and receiving his Body and Blood we come to partake in his Divine nature (2 Peter 1:4).

You also might want to look at the following paragraphs in the Catechism: 1996, 1129, 1265, 1692, 1721, 1812.

Here is the link:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc2.htm
__________________
Emmaus

Last edited by Emmaus; May 30, '04 at 5:58 pm. Reason: spelling and content
  #3  
Old May 30, '04, 5:58 pm
Crusader Crusader is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Posts: 1,039
Religion: Catholic of course...
Arrow Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs 220
Caution: Stupid Question Alert:

Okay, I know that "there's no such thing as a stupid question", but I don't remember this one being addressed in my Catholic education: What exactly is the "...Mystery of this water and wine..." to which the Celebrant refers when he pours a small amount of water into the wine before the Consecration?

I know it was often customary in the 1st-Century Middle East to mix wine and water for drinking, but surely there's more significance to it than that. Might it have something to do with the "Blood and water" that poured from Christ's side as it was pierced? Can the Sacrament be valid without it?

Apologists/experts? How 'bout it?
From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"With regard to the water mingled with the wine in the Mass, the Fathers from the earliest times have tried to find reasons why the Church uses a mixed chalice though the Gospel narrative implies that Christ consecrated pure wine. St. Cyprian discussing this question sees an analogy to the union of Christ with His faithful people, but, as the Council of Trent points out (Sess. XXII, De Missa, vii), there is besides this a reference to the flowing of blood and water from Christ's side, from which the Church, the dispensatrix of the sacraments, was formed, like a new Eve from the side of the new Adam. It was probably in allusion to the former symbolism (i.e. the union of the people with Christ) that the earlier "Ordines romani" directed the choir (schola cantorum) to present water at the Offertory of the Mass. We may note also that it has long been the practice of the Greek Orthodox Church to pour a little hot water into the chalice immediately before the Communion, and though there seems no reliable evidence for any such custom in the early centuries, the absence of this usage among the Latins is made by the Greeks a serious ground of reproach."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15564a.htm
  #4  
Old May 31, '04, 3:50 pm
A.Pelliccio A.Pelliccio is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2004
Posts: 532
Religion: Roman Catholic
Send a message via AIM to A.Pelliccio
Default Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

You know whats sad that the new communicants in my parish arent even taught to take the blood. I will always recive both the body and blood but it seems most people dont go to the wine.
  #5  
Old May 31, '04, 8:41 pm
ralphinal ralphinal is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 9,391
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

I was taught by a holy, orthodox nun that the mystery involved has to do with the relationship of the two. The addition of the water does not alter or change the nature of the wine. IN the same way, Jesus was still God dispite his human form. His divinity and regality was not deminished. That explains why so little water is used.

As far as receiving both species, remeber that Christ is present body, blood, soul, and divinity in both forms. It is not nessisary to recieve both, and a smaller host doesn't give you less Christ. That said, I always try to recieve both as well.
  #6  
Old May 25, '11, 5:45 pm
tmarkg tmarkg is offline
Observing Member
 
Join Date: May 7, 2009
Posts: 2
Religion: Catholic
Smile Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

Here is the explanation:
97. At the right edge of the Altar the server provides water and wine to be poured into the Chalice; a mingling which represents Jesus' humanity and Divinity, symbolized by the Water and Blood which flowed from His side. The Celebrant puts Wine into the Chalice, and then adds a little water, for our Lord Himself when instituting the Holy Eucharist, mixed a little Water with the Wine, and the Church continues to observe this custom to this day.
98. Holy Mother Church says: Why speak here of the dignity of man? Why recall here, the Divinity and Humanity of Jesus Christ? Because the Wine and Water used here are figures: the Wine represents Jesus Christ as God, the Water represents Him as Man. The weakness of the Water, compared with the strength of the Wine, expresses the difference, which exists between the Humanity and the Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. We must see ourselves too in this water, since it was us, who by Mary, furnished Our Lord with the Humanity. Thus, does Holy Mother Church express herself on this subject, in sentiments of admiration; thus does she love to put forward the true dignity of man.
99. Holy Mother Church puts before us, first of all, the Mystery of the Incarnation, and by means of this thought of the Water and the Wine being mingled together in one liquid remedy; thus does she recall the union of the Humanity and the Divinity of Our Lord, and our seeing this, asks of God that we too may participate in the Divinity of our Lord Himself, just as St. Peter expresses it, in his second Epistle: “that by the promises which were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, we may be made participators of the Divine Nature”.
100. This deification, begun on earth by Sanctifying Grace, will be completed in Heaven in Glory. In the earthly Paradise, the devil told Eve that if she and Adam would only follow his counsel, both of them would be as gods. Here he lied; for then, as now, by the Faithful fulfillment of the Divine precepts alone, can man ever reach God. In Heaven, we shall be as Gods, not that we shall become so, by nature, but that in the Beatific Vision, we shall see God even as He sees Himself, and our state will be that of creatures placed immediately below the Divinity. Holy Church is determined on holding this Truth before our mental gaze, and she does so in this Prayer, while speaking to us of the Incarnation of the Word, the very Principle of man's true greatness.
101. The use of Water and Wine is then the figure of two mysteries at once: the mystery of the union of the human with the Divine Nature in Our Lord; and the union of Jesus Christ with His Church, which is composed of all the Faithful.
102. Water is so indispensable for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, that if it should happen that none could be procured, it would be necessary to abstain from saying Mass. On the other hand, Water may never be mingled in so large a proportion as to alter the Wine itself; for in such case, Consecration would not take place.

Taken from The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, by Father Mark Gregorczyk. See this book at https://www.createspace.com/3471267
  #7  
Old May 25, '11, 8:34 pm
MarkThompson MarkThompson is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2010
Posts: 5,330
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

This thread will be celebrating its seventh birthday in a couple of days.

__________________
Qui meditabitur in lege Domini die ac nocte, dabit fructum suum in tempore suo.

  #8  
Old May 26, '11, 7:01 am
TheMc TheMc is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2010
Posts: 2,566
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Water and Wine "Mystery" . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkThompson View Post
This thread will be celebrating its seventh birthday in a couple of days.

Closed Thread

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Liturgy and Sacraments

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8304Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: GLam8833
5071CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: mountee
4358Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: lsbar
4035OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: 3DOCTORS
3853SOLITUDE
Last by: Prairie Rose
3617Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3264Poems and Reflections
Last by: PathWalker
3212Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Rifester
3203Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3070For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: B C Gill



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 2:38 pm.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.