Arrgh! Horrible "Surprise" at Mass today...

[Island Oak]

Originally Posted by netmilsmom

Reading comprehension is not one of your strong points, eh?
Try it again, understanding that the OP walked into a LifeTeen Mass with very few teens and no announcement that it was being changed to a LifeTeen mass. It certainly wasn't about teens praising God, when few teens were there.

Trust me when I asssure you that I had no trouble whatsoever deciphering the temperament of the OP or what s/he meant by his post and responded accordingly:

...I think seething in anger and hatred is a good reason to leave. I said it already, I wanted to beat the tar out of the priest for doing this. I get very very angry, and if I don't remove myself from the cause of my anger I get physically violent. It was better that I leave. Y'all can tell me as much as you want that I should have stayed, but I know I did the right thing. Its better to leave than to assault the priest.

...and if anyone can justify this as a healthy, justifiable observance of form, we do not belong to the same Church.

[Atk Aheeni]

Originally Posted by Island Oak

Well...don't I hear ya! Nothing ticks me off faster than seeing a group of teenagers gathered in a church using their time, talent and energy to praise God.
I mean, c'mon on...whatever happened to sneaking cigarettes, swiping liquor from the old man's cabinet and getting drunk or having sex in the back of the Chevy?!?!? What in the world is to become of the detox counselors, crisis pregnancy advisors, parole officers, abortion protestors--I mean these folks need to earn a living too, don't they?!? WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH KIDS THESE DAYS turning to the Church of all places to spend their time?!?! I hope we can turn this trend around and soon!!!

LOL

[Ray_Scheel]

Originally Posted by Atk Aheeni

Yeah but any catholic knows when you see people leave the church during mass its either someone had a baby someone died or someone fainted. Those kids know better what that was about. i guess i would have took one for the team.

Having the guts to walk out is taking one for the team, while sitting and through silence and inaction giving the impression that one thought the scandalous treatment of the liturgy was acceptable actually makes one a *party* to the scandal. When to stick it out and when to go is a judgement call based on one's person own comfort level, but the teen masses seem especailly inclined to pack in the reasons to take what actions one can to quietly object to bad liturgies being forced upon the attending faithful.

[Isidore_AK]

Originally Posted by Island Oak

Trust me when I asssure you that I had no trouble whatsoever deciphering the temperament of the OP or what s/he meant by his post and responded accordingly:


...and if anyone can justify this as a healthy, justifiable observance of form, we do not belong to the same Church.

Listen buddy, I have admitted multiple times in this thread that I have anger problems. If you'd lived my life you would too. I am not trying to justify my reaction. I know full well that both my anger and my reaction were sinful. That doesn't mean that I should sit there, become even more EDIT ticked off and do something that would land me in the pokey.

Think of the incredible Hulk. Hulk angry, Hulk SMASH. That describes me pretty well. You won't like me when I'm angry. As it is I went outside where it was about 5 degrees above 0, and cursed like a sailer for about 15 minutes. I threw a temper tantrum. A big one.

But that is how I react to anger and stress. I direct physical violence at the source of my anger. Deal with it.

[tkdnick]

Originally Posted by DWPC

it was a Mass; a rite with an explicit liturgy in which ALL faithful Catholics should be welcome to particpate and recieve Christ in the Eucharist free of an unpleasant environment or intimidating actions. To think that we're now at a point where good and faithful Catholics feel intimidated or stressed about the simple act of going to Sunday Mass!

INCLUDING those people who wish to worship God with a more contemporary music style!!!

[AquinaSavio]

Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS

Praying for you!

Jim

Originally Posted by Island Oak

[...and if anyone can justify this as a healthy, justifiable observance of form, we do not belong to the same Church.

He's already admitted that he has a problem with anger. I think that's very brave of him. Let's not continue to make him feel bad about it, eh?

[Atk Aheeni]

Originally Posted by Ray_Scheel

Having the guts to walk out is taking one for the team, while sitting and through silence and inaction giving the impression that one thought the scandalous treatment of the liturgy was acceptable actually makes one a *party* to the scandal. When to stick it out and when to go is a judgement call based on one's person own comfort level, but the teen masses seem especailly inclined to pack in the reasons to take what actions one can to quietly object to bad liturgies being forced upon the attending faithful.

If that makes you feel better.

[Atk Aheeni]

Originally Posted by Isidore_AK

Listen buddy, I have admitted multiple times in this thread that I have anger problems. If you'd lived my life you would too. I am not trying to justify my reaction. I know full well that both my anger and my reaction were sinful. That doesn't mean that I should sit there, become even more ticked off and do something that would land me in the pokey.

Think of the incredible Hulk. Hulk angry, Hulk SMASH. That describes me pretty well. You won't like me when I'm angry. As it is I went outside where it was about 5 degrees above 0, and cursed like a sailer for about 15 minutes. I threw a temper tantrum. A big one.

But that is how I react to anger and stress. I direct physical violence at the source of my anger. Deal with it.

Even though I have a diffrence in opinion than you of how it could have been dealt with. I can honestly say that temper must be torture to deal with if your having a temper tantrum over a kid with guitars. Sorry for bieng judgemental on your decision to leave. I think it would have been worse to lose it in the church. I hope you conquer that one day man.

[deb1]

Originally Posted by Isidore_AK

Listen buddy, I have admitted multiple times in this thread that I have anger problems. If you'd lived my life you would too. I am not trying to justify my reaction. I know full well that both my anger and my reaction were sinful. That doesn't mean that I should sit there, become even more ticked off and do something that would land me in the pokey.

Think of the incredible Hulk. Hulk angry, Hulk SMASH. That describes me pretty well. You won't like me when I'm angry. As it is I went outside where it was about 5 degrees above 0, and cursed like a sailer for about 15 minutes. I threw a temper tantrum. A big one.

But that is how I react to anger and stress. I direct physical violence at the source of my anger. Deal with it.

Despite following this thread, I didn't realize that you had such a problem with your anger. I thought that you were simply just really irritated. Now that I realize that you have a problem controlling your temper beyond what most people have, I will apologize.

So, yes, in your particular situation, you did what was necessary for you to regain control of yourself.

[VociMike]

Originally Posted by WenckebachCath

...I see nothing inherently superior with older music.

But the thing is, the Church does see "older music" as inherently superior to the "modern" dreck that happens in most parishes today. Not because it is older, but because it more fully fulfills the requirements of sacred music in the liturgy. In fact, the Church has been adamant about this fact:

"Gregorian chant...should be given pride of place in liturgical services. But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations..."

"You, teachers and students, are asked to make the most of your artistic gifts, maintaining and furthering the study and practice of music and song in the forms and with the instruments privileged by the Second Vatican Council: Gregorian chant, sacred polyphony and the organ."

"With regard to liturgical music compositions, I make my own the "general law" that Saint Pius X formulated in these terms: 'A composition for Church is sacred and liturgical insofar as it approaches Gregorian melody in flow, in inspiration, and in flavor, and so much less is it worthy of the temple insomuch as it is recognized as departing from that supreme model'."

"Classic Polyphony agrees admirably with Gregorian Chant, the supreme model of all sacred music, and hence it has been found worthy of a place side by side with Gregorian Chant"

"An authentic updating of sacred music can take place only in the lineage of the great tradition of the past, of Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony…"

"In the West, in the form of Gregorian chant, the inherited tradition of psalm-singing was developed to a new sublimity and purity, which set a permanent standard for sacred music, music for the liturgy of the Church."

The first quote is from Vatican II. The next three are from Pope John Paul II. The last two are from Pope Benedict XVI.

[tkdnick]

From the USCCB site regarding US adaptations to the GIRM

Musical Instruments and Approval of Musical Settings
This adaptation will be inserted at number 393:
Bearing in mind the important place which singing has in celebration, as a necessary and integral part of the Liturgy, all musical settings of the texts for the people's responses and acclamations in the Order of Mass and for special rites that occur in the course of the liturgical year must be submitted to the USCCB Secretariat for the Liturgy for review and approval prior to publication.
While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the dioceses of the United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.

[DWPC]

Originally Posted by VociMike

....Not because it is older, but because it more fully fulfills the requirements of sacred music in the liturgy.

I suspect that we're also seeing why the Church had generally refused to adopt "vulgar" music, i.e, popular music of the common people, into the liturgy, for over a millenia. Every culture and era has its own, and I suspect it was a undesirable source of friction between groups whenever it was tried in the liturgy.

[WenckebachCath]

Originally Posted by Island Oak

Well...don't I hear ya! Nothing ticks me off faster than seeing a group of teenagers gathered in a church using their time, talent and energy to praise God.
I mean, c'mon on...whatever happened to sneaking cigarettes, swiping liquor from the old man's cabinet and getting drunk or having sex in the back of the Chevy?!?!? What in the world is to become of the detox counselors, crisis pregnancy advisors, parole officers, abortion protestors--I mean these folks need to earn a living too, don't they?!? WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH KIDS THESE DAYS turning to the Church of all places to spend their time?!?! I hope we can turn this trend around and soon!!!

[tkdnick]

Another one from the GIRM
41. All other things being equal, Gregorian chant holds pride of place because it is proper to the Roman Liturgy. Other types of sacred music, in particular polyphony, are in no way excluded, provided that they correspond to the spirit of the liturgical action and that they foster the participation of all the faithful.50

[Rebecca New]

Originally Posted by mercygate

Whenever the music makes me grind my teeth, I say to myself: Well, if Jesus can show up and listen to this stuff, I guess I can stick it out!

I agree with you 100%. Yes, Jesus got mad and turned over the tables in the Temple, but this is different. You could have stayed and suffered through for the Lord.