Why do anti-abortion signs....

[carol marie]

I've not personally encountered these signs in public, however I have a friend who did. She was going to the Milwaukee zoo with her family and she and her children had to walk past several LARGE pictures of dismembered babies. Apparently a local hospital that provides abortions was having it's company picnic at the zoo that day. The protestors knew that lots of children would walk past the signs but displayed them anyhow.

It is one thing to hold the signs outside a clinic - I'm curious as to the opinions about holding them outside a zoo on a Saturday? However, the fact isn't lost on me that those who provided the abortions were the evil ones. Just curious if you believe the signs are, in this case, not appropriate?

[apricot yogurt]

By showing these images we are showing the abortionists that we know what they are doing all day, and we are showing the general public that this is what goes on behind the cosy euphemisms of "choice", and "women's rights"

[bear06]

Originally Posted by carol marie

I've not personally encountered these signs in public, however I have a friend who did. She was going to the Milwaukee zoo with her family and she and her children had to walk past several LARGE pictures of dismembered babies. Apparently a local hospital that provides abortions was having it's company picnic at the zoo that day. The protestors knew that lots of children would walk past the signs but displayed them anyhow.

It is one thing to hold the signs outside a clinic - I'm curious as to the opinions about holding them outside a zoo on a Saturday? However, the fact isn't lost on me that those who provided the abortions were the evil ones. Just curious if you believe the signs are, in this case, not appropriate?

The main objection of these images is always to stop the death of a child. Now this can be done in different ways. It's very effective as a last line of defense and it can ALSO be a way to educate the public and it sounds like the group your friend encountered was trying to make life very uncomfortable for the zoo who let them have a company picnic there and for the abortionists themselves. MANY abortionists have stopped doing aboritons, not because they were wrong, but it cost them too much personally due to pro-lifers exposing their deeds to the neighbors. NOW has been whining and crying about this for years. This same tactic used in different places has the same results - more babies being saved whether it be by mothers changing their minds, abortionists giving up their trade or the public at large voting correctly.

[gam197]

How about pets? When a pet hamster dies, it causes children alot of grief.

No one is trying to harm children. I used distraction when I came across things I didn't want my children to see. I simply point in the opposite direction and say "Look at this."

[carol marie]

Originally Posted by bear06

The main objection of these images is always to stop the death of a child. Now this can be done in different ways. It's very effective as a last line of defense and it can ALSO be a way to educate the public and it sounds like the group your friend encountered was trying to make life very uncomfortable for the zoo who let them have a company picnic there and for the abortionists themselves. MANY abortionists have stopped doing aboritons, not because they were wrong, but it cost them too much personally due to pro-lifers exposing their deeds to the neighbors. NOW has been whining and crying about this for years. This same tactic used in different places has the same results - more babies being saved whether it be by mothers changing their minds, abortionists giving up their trade or the public at large voting correctly.

Again, if it saves one baby it's worth it. I imagine that the hospital workers were very uncomfortable when confronted with the reality of who they work for. I often think of the Nazis and wonder how they could've tortured Jews and then gone home to their wives and children and ate dinner like nothing horrible happened? I wonder if their families really knew what they spent their day doing? I think the same of abortion providers. Another poster said that these images prevent people from hiding behind nice words like "choice." I agree.

[Rosalinda]

carol marie asked:

It is one thing to hold the signs outside a clinic - I'm curious as to the opinions about holding them outside a zoo on a Saturday?

While I adamantly defend the need to show these graphics and understand why some would feel the need to spoil this picnic prudence seems lacking here. Was the public given fair notice beforehand so that parents could decide to postpone their visit to the zoo? Maybe it would have been more appropriate to protest with simple signs in this context. The guilty would have had a shadow cast over their day as they would have felt haunted by these gentler reminders yet the youngsters would have remained oblivious to this protest.

On the other hand, Bear06 has made some good points too.. Many doctors who do abortions are not suspected even by their neighbours, friends, colleagues and wives. These murders are committed as an aside to their regular practice. Doubtless, public exposure has given many the incentive to discontinue this "elective procedure". That being said, Christians are called to be as wise as serpents and as meek as lambs. Targeting zoos does not seem very wise. Maybe meekness would have been a better option.

[bear06]

Was the public given fair notice beforehand so that parents could decide to postpone their visit to the zoo?

Actually, Rosalinda, this is a really good idea. One that I hope they used. I think it's good to send out a "warning shot". Hopefully the zoo was notified first (and even the pro-aborts) that this would happen should they show up there. It gives the parties a chance to reconsider whether or not they want to host and whether or not they want to go through with it. After that, it might be nice to warn the public at large (although that could be difficult to achieve on a shoestring budget) but they could make some effort. After that I wouldn't have a problem with them being there.

It's not a place I'd go to (or at least I haven't) but I'm not going to condemn those going. These tactics have been proven to hurt the abortion industry and thus save babies. Like I said before, we all have to find our niche in this fight and just because somebody else's niche isn't ours doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong. I'm sure they've prayed and received counsel just like the rest of us.

[Rosalinda]

it might be nice to warn the public at large (although that could be difficult to achieve on a shoestring budget) but they could make some effort.

Yes, Bear06. Prolifers are not in this struggle to make money and often the money is coming directly out of their own pockets to fight this injustice. If there wasn't the time or money for a notice in the local media protesters with warning signs a few blocks away on the perimeter of the zoo would have been helpful, at the very least.

It's not a place I'd go to (or at least I haven't) but I'm not going to condemn those going

Yes, I agree. Bear06. No one has a right to condemn such an action as evil as many have presumed to judge here. That's where I draw the line, at calling an act of poor judgement a grave sin.

Only God can see the whole picture. I'm just struggling to correctly place a few pieces of a puzzle without benefit of the whole picture.

[Kristopher]

Originally Posted by Mommyof02green

... While leaving the hospital there were anti-abortion picketer with signs saying abortion kills. ...

You only mentioned leaving the hospital: you never mentioned in what manner. I figured you walked out the front doors, and there were the pictures.

It must be difficult to command obedience from four yr. olds, and five yr. olds, but did you try to tell them not to look out the windows, until mommy says it's okay, or to look at the front seats, or occupy their time with toys or something?

I don't know what was happening there, but did those signs surprise you, or were they waiting there for you, on the sidewalk, or were they parked at the curb? What did you do to meet your responsibility to protect your children? How did you explain the pictures to your kids? Can you refer me to a post that you already have addressed this?

Those who typically run the campaigns to bring these images to others avoid elementary schools, traffic during the day when toddlers, and adolescents might be with parents on the road, etc. It is their responsibility, and yours, and mine to inform people about the destruction caused by abortion.

I am glad that you had an alternative, the 4D images, but I cannot agree that they do anything at all to show the destruction of abortion, let alone do so effectively. Photographs since the 1960's of stillborns have been photographed, and the act of conception filmed, and every stage of human development shown by photographs for over thirty yrs. now--these pictures of the unborn--as I think about it now: every woman interested in an abortion has the opportunity to watch abortions being performed on themselves, or others through ultrasound--it is something used to demonstrate just how safe of a procedure it is for the woman.

4D images of a baby in the womb are ineffective at showing the destruction caused by abortion--they are effective in showing abortionists where to slit the throat of the unborn child, and to show the woman receiving the abortion: what the doctor, or assistant is doing.

[Rosalinda]

Kristopher please clarify this statement:

every woman interested in an abortion has the opportunity to watch abortions being performed on themselves, or others through ultrasound--it is something used to demonstrate just how safe of a procedure it is for the woman.

I'm confused. My understanding has been at least 78% of abortion-minded women who see their unborn child on ultrasound experience an immediate change of heart. In point of fact, abortion providers instruct assistants to be very careful the clients do not see the ultrasound screen, precisely because they fear humanizing the child. What could be more humanizing than a mother? I only wish it was mandatory for all abortion-minded mothers to at least look at their child in utero - via ultrasound - before consenting to their deliberate killing. If such were the case, this whole issue on the ethics of publicly showing graphic posters would be moot. So Kristopher, kindly explain just when these poor women have "an opportunity to watch an abortion being performed on themselves."

I agree with your point about the ultrasound images. How ironic it is. This tool in the hands of pro-lifers saves lives yet this same tool in the hands of abortionists facilitates their "work".

Likewise, there are some who can never imagine just how cruelly these children die. They will never take the time to sit down and read step by step how the "doctor" methodically inserts instruments of torture into her to deliver her child piecemeal. They have never read how the "doctors" describe the texture of their children as they grab, twist, pull and dismember them. After so many killings, these doctors acquire a knack for guessing the developmental age of their victims. They have the same calculatingly cool minds of serial psychotic murderers. It is incredible how these medical practitioners proudly flaunt their skills in courtrooms detailing how well they know their victims by the amount of resistance their little muscles and joints give them. Really, they brag about their intimate knowledge of death with the candor of diners relishing a chicken stew!

Frankly, reading their words is far more grueling and horrific than are the photographs. We are a visual culture, nonetheless, and few are going to inform themselves about the true nature of the people they are entrusting their lives to, so what's left but holding up these posters like a stop sign? Stop signs are there to save lives. So are these posters, stop signs to save lives.

[Kristopher]

Originally Posted by Rosalinda

Kristopher please clarify this statement:


... My understanding has been at least 78% of abortion-minded women who see their unborn child on ultrasound experience an immediate change of heart. In point of fact, abortion providers instruct assistants to be very careful the clients do not see the ultrasound screen, precisely because they fear humanizing the child. ... I agree with your point about the ultrasound images. ...

Thank you for the statistic, it is very encouraging and I remember during counselor training that I received through Living Well Medical Clinic that many women have a change of heart when exposed to medical models showing the development of their child, such as what Dr. Bernard N. Nathanson used in his narrative "The Silent Scream".

I must have gone a wee-bit overboard in my claim opposing the use of 4D ultrasound images to show the destruction of abortion.

I remember the abortion of my child, the nurse, just like in the narrative The Silent Scream used the euphemism "Number One" for my child's head, being severed from its body. I tried with what you wrote to recall if there was an ultrasound: it is a vague memory and my thoughts were largely extant at the time to control my rage--the temptation to kill 'em all as I witnessed in my mind, the murder of my child.

We visited Planned Parenthood before the abortion, once. Though I at the time, opposed birth control, and Planned Parenthood; I thought in terms of the commitment to her, and the emotional characteristics of the relationship seemed to demand on my part, my presence there with her--considering my own irresponsible behavior that presented her with an opportunity for birth control. I remember the receptionist recommended that in the event she should choose an abortion, having it viewed on ultrasound was an option.

The Dr. I think could have cared less about the humanity of the unborn, and the nurse as well. Money was more than a word to the two of them. Though, the nurse felt--I think that she expressed feeling forced to perform that part of her job, I think. Memory is poor on the matter.

Men have their stories on this too, women make their choice not only for themselves, but also for their men, for their parents, for their grandparents, and for society as a whole--no matter the responsibility of the medical profession, and education failing them with proper information about the facts of human development: who and what is a person, a human being that can in fact, and in fact has been defined by medical science, and theology as well.

P.S. Education has very clearly failed many men, many women to provide them with the skills essential for them to fulfill the responsibilities demanded of them as legal adults at the age of eighteen, sadly. Though, education may blame the economy that has for at least two generations now failed to provide legal adults with opportunities to become adults to the extent that they may actually afford families, homes, land, education, automobiles, etc.

[Rosalinda]

Kristopher, Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree abortion has many victims. We are all affected in ways we cannot even begin to imagine. May I suggest you contact Silent No More if you haven't already.

This man, Jonathan Flora, used his grief to write and direct an exceptional little movie called "A Distant Thunder".

We never talked about it after and neither did I for years. Never a word.

It wasn't until over twenty years later when I came back to my faith and got married that I truly realized what I had done. When the doctors told my wife and I that we could not have our own children, the emotions and guilt came pouring in. Was I being punished for not protecting my first child.

http://www.silentnomoreawareness.org/men/index.html

Kindly accept my condolences for your loss. My prayers are with you.

[Kristopher]

Originally Posted by Rosalinda

Kristopher, Thank you for sharing your experience. I agree abortion has many victims. ... May I suggest you contact Silent No More if you haven't already. ...

Thank you, Rosalinda, I will get in touch with them. You are welcome, for having shared my experience. I am always astounded by the reach of abortion in other peoples lives: We would without abortion have a population thirteen percent larger than what it is today, and when we consider the relations to those who have abortions, well over fifty-percent of this nation is related by familial ties, or ties of friendship to someone that has chosen an abortion--this always amazes me.

[Mimi]

Originally Posted by Mommyof02green

I have and I in a lot of ways agree with Fr. However, I believe, that the selection of picture used should be better! I can show at least 4 pictures of aborted babies, that are not bloody or show babies all “cut up”. Seeing a baby all “cut up” is what upset my children.

Here are just some examples of aborted babies:

http://www.mttu.com/abort-pics/new-b...choice%203.jpg
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resour...week/07_02.jpg
http://www.100abortionpictures.com/A...ement.cfm?ID=6
http://www.100abortionpictures.com/A...ent.cfm?ID=129

It gets the same message, but in “less-graphic” way. I don’t think we need to use the images of babies all “cut-up” to have the same affect…. especially seeing there are other children that could be seeing these pictures. Their innocents should also be protected.

Now would of the less graphic images made a difference for my children. Yes, I believe so….they would of just been sad that the baby died…..not scared to death….my children are just plain scared and there is nothing I can do about it.

It’s nice that your children have not been traumatized. However, it’s not so great for me. It’s heart breaking that my 4 year-old didn’t want to go to sleep to night, over the fear of having bad dreams. It’s upsetting that my 5 year-old felt that he should sleep on his sister bedroom floor tonight to “help her” stay safe. I don’t believe it worth risking trauma to a child. As a Catholic-Christian, it is my understanding that I’m supposes to be protecting the innocents and lives of ALL Children!! Children in the womb and Children out of the womb!

I don't know if you will see this post or not, Mommy of 2, but one thing you could do is call Dr. Ray Guarendi, or write to him. It could be a long wait to talk to him on his show on either EWTN radio, or Relevant Radio (if it airs in your area). He is a family thereapist and listens Very Very Well, and is funny, to boot. He would treat your problem seriously and offer good advice to help you cope.

One other thing, you could call your local pro-life group and let them know you and your children were disturbed by the photos and how that affected your life. Offer your suggestions, make a donation (if possible) and let them know you are praying for an end to abortion. Let your children know you did this and I think them knowing you did something about trying to help will also help them. They can pray; you can get notices on when babies ARE saved through the pro-life group that does sidewalk counseling and rejoice when that happens. You might buy an outfit to donate for a Baby Jesus shower that some churches have at Christmas time (but the clothing would be welcome any time of year I'm sure).

In your prayers, ask Jesus to lift their anxiety and shield them from the horror of abortion. They will probably forget if you don't keep perpetuating the horrible part. Like you said, focus on the positive!

God bless,
Mimi