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  #1  
Old Nov 20, '06, 9:40 pm
marcsababa marcsababa is offline
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Default blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Hi,

I love my TLM mass, priest, my community but I have two questions:

1. My priest asked us not to say the responses that are usually said such as "Et cum spiritu tuo" etc. The choir sings the sung responses and I suppose the laity are to join in with those. But our priest said that the spoken responses are very distracting during the mass and he would rather we just let the servers do that on their own. Anyone else heard of that? Are there any points I could bring to Father's attention on perhaps the need people feel to respond during the mass. (I enjoy the Uchranian rite for its richness in responses from the laity)

2. Father does not bless non communicating children who kneel at the communion rail. I wish he did. My kids are not old enough yet, but they kneel there so seewtly watching. I am sure they would love to be blessed. Anyone else heard of this. Can I bring it to Father's attention.

Our priest is FSSP and wonderful. I just don't want to go to him if I am completely wrong.

M.
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M.
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  #2  
Old Nov 20, '06, 10:03 pm
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsababa View Post
Hi,

I love my TLM mass, priest, my community but I have two questions:

1. My priest asked us not to say the responses that are usually said such as "Et cum spiritu tuo" etc. The choir sings the sung responses and I suppose the laity are to join in with those. But our priest said that the spoken responses are very distracting during the mass and he would rather we just let the servers do that on their own. Anyone else heard of that? Are there any points I could bring to Father's attention on perhaps the need people feel to respond during the mass. (I enjoy the Uchranian rite for its richness in responses from the laity)


M.
The peoples' responses are a distraction? I regard that as an absurd and dangerous mindset. Why do we need to come in the building then? We could stand out in the narthex or even the parking lot. Then the priest wouldn't be distracted at all.

The more I read about the TLM on these forums, the more grateful I am to God for the Novus Ordo.
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  #3  
Old Nov 20, '06, 10:58 pm
marcsababa marcsababa is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post

The more I read about the TLM on these forums, the more grateful I am to God for the Novus Ordo.
Dear Kirk,

I must point out, that this is the request of my particular priest and not the statusquo as I understand it to be. We have had other FSSP priests who did not ask for that. This may be a particular issue with this man.

My father pulled a face when I told him about this request, even though he loves the TLM as well.

Perhaps I should approach Father about this. Thank you for your opinion.

Just so you don't think my wonderful priest is bad I want you to know that he gives his life for us. Even when he takes his vacation he goes camping with the boys at a camp organised by parents of our community. Father teaches in the morning and then hikes about taking pictures in the afternoon. On days off from being on call at the hospital, in the warmer months, he announces in advance that he will be going hiking and invites men and boys or at other times families to join him. He never does anything that doesn't have some sort of "service" to his flock attached to it. His love for us is apparent so I do not take insult at his request.

M.
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M.
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  #4  
Old Nov 20, '06, 11:05 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

the Communion Rite is for distributing communion and no other blessings or actions are part of it. That is why blessing non-communicants is discouraged in this diocese (we have no Tridentine Mass at this time, and such blessings were never part of it in my recollection).

The liturgical reforms begun before V2 even convened called for the faithful to make the responses proper to them, and we were doing so in the Latin Mass I grew up with, so I don't know what laws your priest is referring to. In those days when a child had to "learn his prayers" in order to make first communion, that is what they were referring to, the Mass prayers and responses in Latin (not merely the other formal prayers outside Mass, Hail Mary etc.).
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  #5  
Old Nov 20, '06, 11:07 pm
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsababa View Post
Dear Kirk,

I must point out, that this is the request of my particular priest and not the statusquo as I understand it to be. We have had other FSSP priests who did not ask for that. This may be a particular issue with this man.

My father pulled a face when I told him about this request, even though he loves the TLM as well.

Perhaps I should approach Father about this. Thank you for your opinion.

Just so you don't think my wonderful priest is bad I want you to know that he gives his life for us. Even when he takes his vacation he goes camping with the boys at a camp organised by parents of our community. Father teaches in the morning and then hikes about taking pictures in the afternoon. On days off from being on call at the hospital, in the warmer months, he announces in advance that he will be going hiking and invites men and boys or at other times families to join him. He never does anything that doesn't have some sort of "service" to his flock attached to it. His love for us is apparent so I do not take insult at his request.

M.
I simply regard this as a dangerous trend, that the people of God are utterly extraneous in the minds of some who call themselves traditional. I suppose it's understandable, given some of the liturgical abuses and "community" centered liturgies the Church has been assualted with, but I hope it's a pendulum swing that soon finds it's way back to the center. That our responses would be a distraction tends toward a dangerous hyperclericalism, which is as bad as anti-clericalism.

I'm glad you're priest is a good and holy man. I hope he gets a correction about this, though.
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  #6  
Old Nov 20, '06, 11:10 pm
marcsababa marcsababa is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

[quote=puzzleannie;1678115 In those days when a child had to "learn his prayers" in order to make first communion, that is what they were referring to, the Mass prayers and responses in Latin (not merely the other formal prayers outside Mass, Hail Mary etc.).[/QUOTE]

Good point. I am now sure I have to bring this up with Father. Thank you for the correction on the bessing issue. I didn't know. It does make sense.
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M.
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  #7  
Old Nov 20, '06, 11:47 pm
Missa Solemnis Missa Solemnis is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post
The peoples' responses are a distraction? I regard that as an absurd and dangerous mindset. Why do we need to come in the building then? We could stand out in the narthex or even the parking lot. Then the priest wouldn't be distracted at all.
Thats exactly what the God fearing Jews did...sorry.

Feel blessed for our "liberal" TLM.

And please dont derail the thread...
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  #8  
Old Nov 20, '06, 11:48 pm
Missa Solemnis Missa Solemnis is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsababa View Post
Hi,

I love my TLM mass, priest, my community but I have two questions:

1. My priest asked us not to say the responses that are usually said such as "Et cum spiritu tuo" etc. The choir sings the sung responses and I suppose the laity are to join in with those. But our priest said that the spoken responses are very distracting during the mass and he would rather we just let the servers do that on their own. Anyone else heard of that? Are there any points I could bring to Father's attention on perhaps the need people feel to respond during the mass. (I enjoy the Uchranian rite for its richness in responses from the laity)

2. Father does not bless non communicating children who kneel at the communion rail. I wish he did. My kids are not old enough yet, but they kneel there so seewtly watching. I am sure they would love to be blessed. Anyone else heard of this. Can I bring it to Father's attention.

Our priest is FSSP and wonderful. I just don't want to go to him if I am completely wrong.

M.

And to actualy answer the OP.

Simply ask the priest if he could bless the children. Im sure he wouldnt mind. But concerning responding...if it bothers the priest.

Just dont do it. He might be trying to concentrate on the sacrifice and the noice distracts him.

Pax
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  #9  
Old Nov 20, '06, 11:55 pm
AJV AJV is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Perhaps you can say the responses but very very softly. Somewhere in the voice the priest says the Canon in.
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  #10  
Old Nov 21, '06, 3:11 am
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsababa View Post
Hi,

I love my TLM mass, priest, my community but I have two questions:

1. My priest asked us not to say the responses that are usually said such as "Et cum spiritu tuo" etc. The choir sings the sung responses and I suppose the laity are to join in with those. But our priest said that the spoken responses are very distracting during the mass and he would rather we just let the servers do that on their own. Anyone else heard of that? Are there any points I could bring to Father's attention on perhaps the need people feel to respond during the mass. (I enjoy the Uchranian rite for its richness in responses from the laity)

2. Father does not bless non communicating children who kneel at the communion rail. I wish he did. My kids are not old enough yet, but they kneel there so seewtly watching. I am sure they would love to be blessed. Anyone else heard of this. Can I bring it to Father's attention.

Our priest is FSSP and wonderful. I just don't want to go to him if I am completely wrong.

M.
I notice that you said this Mass was a High Mass or as it is sometimes called a Solemn Mass The type of Mass where the people said the responses were called Dialogue Masses and they were Low Masses. There are big differences in the two, singing versus reciting, use of Deacon and Sub Deacon as opposed to acolytes and altar boys , incensing etc. Dialogue Masses never really hit it off too big in the States. I have noticed that some of the Indult Masses have them though.

While I think your Priest handled the situation a bit badly, and did not explain it well, the congregation is really not supposed to respond in a High Mass, at least not in a voice loud enough to interfere with the Choir's singing or with the Clerical responses at the altar. That is probably what he meant. Also any dialogue Mass had to be approved by the local Bishop.

As far as blessings go, some Priests will do them and others won't and I think that is within their discretion.. I do know that many used to not do it because they felt that only those receiving and thus in a state of grace should be at the communion rail. Instead they would give a blessing to the children and such after Mass. It was not uncommon in the old days to see quite a few people kneeling throughout communion in the pews. They would always say that they forgotten the fast or something like that.
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  #11  
Old Nov 21, '06, 4:07 am
childofmary1143 childofmary1143 is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

It must be noted that in the 1962 Tridentine Missal the people are permitted to respond with the servers. As for dialogue mass never catching on with the Bishops, that is totally untrue. I read that as early as the late 40s that 2/3 of all US dioceses had them
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  #12  
Old Nov 21, '06, 5:50 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcsababa View Post
Hi,

I love my TLM mass, priest, my community but I have two questions:

1. My priest asked us not to say the responses that are usually said such as "Et cum spiritu tuo" etc. The choir sings the sung responses and I suppose the laity are to join in with those. But our priest said that the spoken responses are very distracting during the mass and he would rather we just let the servers do that on their own. Anyone else heard of that? Are there any points I could bring to Father's attention on perhaps the need people feel to respond during the mass. (I enjoy the Uchranian rite for its richness in responses from the laity)

2. Father does not bless non communicating children who kneel at the communion rail. I wish he did. My kids are not old enough yet, but they kneel there so seewtly watching. I am sure they would love to be blessed. Anyone else heard of this. Can I bring it to Father's attention.

Our priest is FSSP and wonderful. I just don't want to go to him if I am completely wrong.

M.
High Mass is intentionally a sung Mass. There should not be any spoken responses from the people. The low TLM and specifically the N.O. have more emphases on the peoples responses.

Approaching for a blessing during the distribution of Holy Communion is not something found in any documents of the Church.

If a person for whatever reason cannot receive Holy Communion they should NOT even approach the Blessed Sacrament, until whatever is keeping them from receiving is resolved. Remain in your pew and use the time to pray.
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  #13  
Old Nov 21, '06, 5:55 am
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Veritas41 Veritas41 is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missa Solemnis View Post
And to actualy answer the OP.

Simply ask the priest if he could bless the children. Im sure he wouldnt mind. But concerning responding...if it bothers the priest.

Just dont do it. He might be trying to concentrate on the sacrifice and the noice distracts him.

Pax
My understanding is that the Church has asked priests and EHMC's to refrain from blessing non-communicants because it's redundant since everyone receives a priestly blessing at the end of Mass.
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  #14  
Old Nov 21, '06, 5:58 am
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Missa Solemnis View Post
Thats exactly what the God fearing Jews did...sorry.

Feel blessed for our "liberal" TLM.

And please dont derail the thread...
Actually, you have no certain knowledge of how God-Fearing Jews did it at the time of the Temple sacrifices. And they are certainly called upon to make responses in synagogue, even the ultra Orthodox.
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  #15  
Old Nov 21, '06, 12:31 pm
palmas85 palmas85 is offline
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Default Re: blessing at communion and no laity responses at high mass.

[quote=childofmary1143;1678289]It must be noted that in the 1962 Tridentine Missal the people are permitted to respond with the servers. As for dialogue mass never catching on with the Bishops, that is totally untrue. I read that as early as the late 40s that 2/3 of all US dioceses had them[/QUOTE

I believe that if you check you will find out that in a High Mass the responses were not to be made by the congregation. If you are sure that 2/3 of the Diocese in the United States used the dialogue Mass all the time, I will accept that. I only recall seing a few though and they were not really all that popular. I know that they came in sometimes in the 20's. We never had them.

Now in the Mass that was used after Vatican II until the institution of the Pauline Mass around 1970, yes, responses were made, but that Mass was not a Traditional Mass, in that it varied in many respects. It was kind of a hybrid Mass not Traditional and not Pauline.

The 62 Missal while the one that is used in the Indult was only used for a very short time in the field so to speak. It was rarely used after 1964 or so anywhere. I have copies of several of the Missals that were used in that era. True the 62 Missal was the last official Missal until the Pauline Missal was approved, but the Mass from 1965-70 did not follow the 62 rubrics.
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