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  #1  
Old Dec 11, '06, 5:23 pm
mojo95 mojo95 is offline
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Question Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

It seems strange to me that our Bishop would perform the sacrament of Confirmation during Lent. He also wants the RCIA Candidates to participate and receive confirmation. But this is what is now scheduled for 2007 at our parish. Our pastor said the RCIA rites donít matter (no Rites of Sending/Election, no Scrutinies, and Easter Vigil will be Catechumen only), but they will have a profession of faith before confirmation. Is this legit, legal, etc? Concerned.
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  #2  
Old Dec 11, '06, 5:33 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

your statement of what is happening in your parish is unclear, since it makes no distinction between adult Catholics who are being confirmed, baptized non-Christians who are making a profession of faith, and being confirmed and receiving first communion, and catechumens, the unbaptized, who will receiving baptism, confirmation and first communion at the same time.

Only the last category participate in the Rite of Acceptance in the Order of Catechumens (which happens before Lent, whenever appropriate, the Rite of Election (which belongs to the Bishop, or his delegate) which happens at the beginning of Lent, and the scrutinies, minor exorcisms and presentations, which happen during Lent. The ordinary time the elect (unbaptized) are initiated into the Church is at the Easter Vigil, unless there is an overriding pastoral reason that mandates another time (that change must be approved by the bishop).

when the first two classes of persons are confirmed depends on whether or not the bishop reserves confirmation to himself, which means it will be done at a time and place he decides, usually not Easter. Here it is Pentecost Sunday at the cathedral (or basilica church which is larger), or at the parish when the bishop makes his regular visit to confirm high school youth.

For the second group, baptized non-Catholics, the RCIA does provide optional parallel rites for them, such as the Rite of Welcoming, which may or may not be celebrated at the same time as the catechumens have their rites, and there is even a provision for a combined rite. They do not participate in the scrutinies, exorcisms or rite of election, by virtue of their baptism. They are brought into the Church through RCIA, the sacraments of initiation are RCIA, Rites of Christian Initiation for Adults. There education and preparation may follow a different schedule, however.

we just got a new forum for RCIA discussions, Evangelization.

If you give us a little clearer idea on what your bishop and priest actually said about each situation we can answer better.
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  #3  
Old Dec 11, '06, 5:35 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
It seems strange to me that our Bishop would perform the sacrament of Confirmation during Lent. He also wants the RCIA Candidates to participate and receive confirmation. But this is what is now scheduled for 2007 at our parish. Our pastor said the RCIA rites donít matter (no Rites of Sending/Election, no Scrutinies, and Easter Vigil will be Catechumen only), but they will have a profession of faith before confirmation. Is this legit, legal, etc? Concerned.
That's exactly the way it's supposed to be.

Candidates should be received into full union either before or after Easter. (except for Holy Week)

The RCIA Rites of Sending, Election, Scrutinies are for Catechumens only. Even the Easter Vigil is for Catechumens only, unless there is some necessary reason to combine Initiation and Reception at the Easter Vigil.
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  #4  
Old Dec 11, '06, 5:36 pm
YADA YADA is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Your post seems somewhat confusing to me.

What is the schedule?

Has your Bishop seperated from RCIA those who are already baptized Catholic [but un-catechised or not fully initiated] and those who are baptized Christian from another faith denomination? Some Diocese do offer seperate periods of formation for these candidates. The RCIA is for those who are not Christian already. However, many parishes work with diverse groups because they are unable to offer 2 or 3 various formations.

The Rite of Election is technically for the Catechumens although our Archbishop includes Candidates seperately but in the same service. Also, the Scrutinies are for the Elect ie the non baptized.

Perhaps you could clarify your concerns and your position. Are you a catechumen or a candidate? By the way.....congratulations on embracing the journey and answering God's call to deepen your faith
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  #5  
Old Dec 11, '06, 8:05 pm
jamannor jamannor is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

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Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
It seems strange to me that our Bishop would perform the sacrament of Confirmation during Lent.
I decided myself to become Catholic on Easter, hmmm three years ago. I remember it took years and years to actually be 100% sure since I grew up in a Methodist church who loved me very much. I read, and read, prayed and when I was told I'd have to wait an entire year before I could become a member I was heart broken. (I was confirmed two easters ago) But trust me it was worth the wait. It might seem strange that its during this time of reflection and repentance but its perfect. It's laid out from the very beginning for you and the rest of your parish to become closer to Christ. Even if things aren't required I'd go to as much as possible during lent to experience the full experience. My first reconciliation was during that time, I had my feet washed by the priest, I prayed more then I've ever prayed, and the Easter vigil was the most beautiful mass I've ever been at. It was truly amazing and moving. I'm very excited for you and congradulations.

Jerry
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  #6  
Old Dec 11, '06, 9:42 pm
John Lilburne John Lilburne is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
It seems strange to me that our Bishop would perform the sacrament of Confirmation during Lent. He also wants the RCIA Candidates to participate and receive confirmation. But this is what is now scheduled for 2007 at our parish. Our pastor said the RCIA rites donít matter (no Rites of Sending/Election, no Scrutinies, and Easter Vigil will be Catechumen only), but they will have a profession of faith before confirmation. Is this legit, legal, etc? Concerned.
I am also confused by the question, I am unsure which group is being talked about. The RCIA book gives guidelines on the timing of confirmation, but it seems reasonable for a bishop to make decisions about when people are to be confirmed.

Adults to be baptised are also normally confirmed at the Easter Vigil.

Uncatechized adults who have been baptised, but are preparing for Confirmation and Eucharist are also normally confirmed at the Easter Vigil: "409. The high point of their entire formation will normally be the Easter Vigil. At that time they will make a profession of the faith in which they were baptized, receive the sacrament of confirmation, and take part in the eucharist." (RCIA USA number 409, Latin edition number 304. From The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 246).

Another group of adults is those having the ceremony "Reception of baptized Christians into the full communion of the Catholic Church". This can include confirmation. My view is that this should not normally be at the Easter Vigil. This is based on the following instructions in the RCIA about this group.

"473. ... The rite is so arranged that no greater burden than necessary (see Acts 15:28) is required for the establishment of communion and unity. ...
475 ... Any appearance of triumphalism should be carefully avoided and the manner of celebrating this Mass should be decided beforehand and with a view to the particular circumstances. Both the ecumenical implications and the bond between the candidate and the parish community should be considered. Often it will be preferable to celebrate the Mass with only a few relatives and friends. ...
477. ... Anything that would equate candidates for reception with those who are catechumens is to be absolutely avoided. ...". (USA numbers, from The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, pages 275-276).
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  #7  
Old Dec 13, '06, 6:48 am
Texas Roofer Texas Roofer is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

I do not see the problem either unless your implying that the converting (Adult) candidates are not fully educated in catechism do to timing differences in the RCIA students verses the ccd/cca(children) program?
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  #8  
Old Dec 13, '06, 7:48 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lilburne View Post
I
Uncatechized adults who have been baptised, but are preparing for Confirmation and Eucharist are also normally confirmed at the Easter Vigil: ").
our bishop retains to himself the confirmation of adult Catholics, so this is done at a diocesan celebration at Pentecost, not at the Easter Vigil. the priest has the faculty to confirm the newly baptized and baptized non-Catholics at the Easter Vigil, but may not confirm Catholic adults or youth at this time.
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  #9  
Old Dec 13, '06, 3:24 pm
mojo95 mojo95 is offline
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Question Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Sorry folks this is not about me. My friend is Candidate, Lutheran by baptism and was going to make First Holy Communion and Confirmation at the Easter VIgil. That changed last week when it was announced the Bishop would be comming in February (First Sunday of Lent) to confirm the 8th grade confirmandi, the adult uncatechized catholics and the lone candidate. He was told they would have him make a Profession of Faith, prior to the confirmation.

No one has answered the questions:

1) Is it acceptable to perform the sacrament of confirmation during Lent?

2) Is it acceptable to bypass all the minor and major rites of RCIA to do this? i.e. isn't RCIA mandated by the Church?

3) Father has said "it doesn't matter if they are ready, no one is ready to recieve the Holy Spirit". True?

I understand who and when all the minor and major rites are used; the difference between catachumens and candidates. What I don't understand is the need or authority for this deviation from the process. Is it all up to the ordinary?
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  #10  
Old Dec 13, '06, 3:37 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
Sorry folks this is not about me. My friend is Candidate, Lutheran by baptism and was going to make First Holy Communion and Confirmation at the Easter VIgil. That changed last week when it was announced the Bishop would be comming in February (First Sunday of Lent) to confirm the 8th grade confirmandi, the adult uncatechized catholics and the lone candidate. He was told they would have him make a Profession of Faith, prior to the confirmation.

No one has answered the questions:

1) Is it acceptable to perform the sacrament of confirmation during Lent?

2) Is it acceptable to bypass all the minor and major rites of RCIA to do this? i.e. isn't RCIA mandated by the Church?

3) Father has said "it doesn't matter if they are ready, no one is ready to recieve the Holy Spirit". True?

I understand who and when all the minor and major rites are used; the difference between catachumens and candidates. What I don't understand is the need or authority for this deviation from the process. Is it all up to the ordinary?
I believe so, as long as it is necessary and low key.

If this person is a Candidate then they do not participate in any of the RCIA Rites you mention.

To me there does not seem to be any deviation to the RCIA process as written.
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  #11  
Old Dec 13, '06, 3:59 pm
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jmcrae jmcrae is online now
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
Sorry folks this is not about me. My friend is Candidate, Lutheran by baptism and was going to make First Holy Communion and Confirmation at the Easter VIgil. That changed last week when it was announced the Bishop would be coming in February (First Sunday of Lent) to confirm the 8th grade confirmandi, the adult uncatechized catholics and the lone candidate. He was told they would have him make a Profession of Faith, prior to the confirmation.

No one has answered the questions:

1) Is it acceptable to perform the sacrament of confirmation during Lent?
Yes - this is up to the Bishop.

Quote:
2) Is it acceptable to bypass all the minor and major rites of RCIA to do this? i.e. isn't RCIA mandated by the Church?
RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) is for non-Christians. Uncatechized Christians (including ex-Protestants) can "ride along in the car" but they don't actually do RCIA. As mentioned above, there are some parallel rites for people who have already been baptized, but this is a concession to the fact that most priests haven't got time to do private Catechesis for every uncatechized Christian who crosses his threshold. Your friend is not a Catechumen, and he can be received into the Church any time the priest and the Bishop agree that he is ready - with no fanfare whatsoever required.

Quote:
3) Father has said "it doesn't matter if they are ready, no one is ready to recieve the Holy Spirit". True?
This is probably his way of saying that they have already been taught everything humanly possible, and the rest is up to God.

Quote:
I understand who and when all the minor and major rites are used; the difference between catachumens and candidates. What I don't understand is the need or authority for this deviation from the process. Is it all up to the ordinary?
Yes.
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  #12  
Old Dec 13, '06, 4:03 pm
Andruschak Andruschak is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO View Post
That's exactly the way it's supposed to be.

Candidates should be received into full union either before or after Easter. (except for Holy Week)

The RCIA Rites of Sending, Election, Scrutinies are for Catechumens only. Even the Easter Vigil is for Catechumens only, unless there is some necessary reason to combine Initiation and Reception at the Easter Vigil.
Not here in Los Angeles County. Every Church seems to throw the candidate in with the catechumans. The next big deal is when all us candidates and catechumans go to the downtown cathedral for the Rite of Sending.

I have already asked my supervisor at the Post Office for the required three days of vacation time for the Triduum. All us candidates wil be doing all the things the catecumans do, with one and only one exception. We will not be baptized.

Well, if we cannot find my Church Of England baptism records, I may have to undergo a conditional baptism. No problem for me, I just want to get this whole rigamarol over and done with, thank goodness.

One thing we candidates will have to do, that the catecumans do not, is confession. I understand age 7 is the age where you start sinning on your own. I am age 62.

That's 55 years worth. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let those confession kneelers be well padded
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Old Dec 13, '06, 4:15 pm
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

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Originally Posted by Andruschak View Post
One thing we candidates will have to do, that the catecumans do not, is confession. I understand age 7 is the age where you start sinning on your own. I am age 62.

That's 55 years worth. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let those confession kneelers be well padded
Don't worry about a thing - you'll stop feeling your knees at all, after you get done confessing The Teen Years.

(Bless me Father; I turned 13 in 1957 ...)
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According to Quentin Tarentino, (Kill Bill Volume 2) Clark Kent is Superman's opinion of the human race. It occurs to me that, using the same logic, Jesus of Nazareth is God's.

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  #14  
Old Dec 13, '06, 6:03 pm
Texas Roofer Texas Roofer is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
Sorry folks this is not about me. My friend is Candidate, Lutheran by baptism and was going to make First Holy Communion and Confirmation at the Easter VIgil. That changed last week when it was announced the Bishop would be comming in February (First Sunday of Lent) to confirm the 8th grade confirmandi, the adult uncatechized catholics and the lone candidate. He was told they would have him make a Profession of Faith, prior to the confirmation.

No one has answered the questions:

1) Is it acceptable to perform the sacrament of confirmation during Lent?
YES
Quote:

2) Is it acceptable to bypass all the minor and major rites of RCIA to do this? i.e. isn't RCIA mandated by the Church?
YES
Quote:


3) Father has said "it doesn't matter if they are ready, no one is ready to recieve the Holy Spirit". True?
Father's comments are not an issue, follow the Bishop
Quote:


I understand who and when all the minor and major rites are used; the difference between catachumens and candidates. What I don't understand is the need or authority for this deviation from the process. Is it all up to the ordinary?
The Priest has only the authority the Bishop grants to the Priest. The Bishop answers to Rome so until Rome calls follow the Bishop.

I wish we had your Bishop, our people are treated like cattle
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  #15  
Old Dec 13, '06, 8:38 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation, Lent, RCIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo95 View Post
Sorry folks this is not about me. My friend is Candidate, Lutheran by baptism and was going to make First Holy Communion and Confirmation at the Easter VIgil. That changed last week when it was announced the Bishop would be comming in February (First Sunday of Lent) to confirm the 8th grade confirmandi, the adult uncatechized catholics and the lone candidate. He was told they would have him make a Profession of Faith, prior to the confirmation.

No one has answered the questions:

1) Is it acceptable to perform the sacrament of confirmation during Lent?

YES

2) Is it acceptable to bypass all the minor and major rites of RCIA to do this? i.e. isn't RCIA mandated by the Church?

YES, none of the persons you describe have mandatory rites other than the profession of faith and the rites of confirmation, and communion

3) Father has said "it doesn't matter if they are ready, no one is ready to recieve the Holy Spirit". True?

THE BAPTIZED have already received the Holy Spirit at Baptism, Confirmation completes baptism,

I understand who and when all the minor and major rites are used; the difference between catachumens and candidates. What I don't understand is the need or authority for this deviation from the process. Is it all up to the ordinary?
the authority comes from the Bishop, confirmation belongs to him, he decides, when, where and how it will be done.

sorry I hit the multi-quote function but it did not work
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