Fatima, the work of satan?

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by Tantum ergo

The Fatima Prayer,
seems to be perhaps the solid evidence you need, Simon, that in Fatima Christ was acknowledged. . .not only acknowledged as Savior. . .but that we were to pray this prayer to Him as Savior. Since in order to be Our Savior He came 'in the flesh'--how much more explicit do we have to be? Mary did not come "on her own"--she never does. She came because God sent her so that He could instruct us through her bringing us His words--just as He sent His son to instruct us through her bringing us His WORD.

Tantum,
It seems to me you may be confused?... this is not part of the message of the children of fatima, rather a prayer of the rosary.

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

Tantum,
It seems to me you may be confused?... this is not part of the message of the children of fatima, rather a prayer of the rosary.

MFM, the 'Oh my Jesus' prayer was taught BY Our Lady at Fatima to the child seers, who then spread it throughout the Catholic world. It didn't exist and wasn't prayed before the apparitions.

That prayer is most certainly part of the message of Fatima, since she told them and all Catholics to pray those very words (along with the rest of the Rosary) daily!!!!!

[NotWorthy]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

Hebrew 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

This is what I was referring to:

2nd Macabbees 2:4-8:

The same document also tells how the prophet, following a divine revelation, ordered that the tent and the ark should accompany him and how he went off to the mountain which Moses climbed to see God's inheritance. When Jeremiah arrived there, he found a room in a cave in which he put the tent, the ark, and the altar of incense; then he blocked up the entrance. Some of those who followed him came up intending to mark the path, but they could not find it. When Jeremiah heard of this, he reproved them: "The place is to remain unknown until God gathers his people together again and shows them mercy. Then the Lord will disclose these things, and the glory of the Lord will be seen in the cloud, just as it appeared in the time of Moses and when Solomon prayed that the Place might be gloriously sanctified.

We also see the "obsolete and the aging" disappearing in the heavenly temple, only to be replaced by the Ark of the New Covenant, Mary, in Revelation.

[JaneFrances]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

Tantum,
It seems to me you may be confused?... this is not part of the message of the children of fatima, rather a prayer of the rosary.

No, you are incorrect. These were the words of the Blessed Mother at Fatima to the children as reported in dialogue accounts for July 13, 1917:

‘When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need.’

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by NotWorthy

This is what I was referring to:

2nd Macabbees 2:4-8:
We also see the "obsolete and the aging" disappearing in the heavenly temple, only to be replaced by the Ark of the New Covenant, Mary, in Revelation.

I see what you are indicating, but this duetrocanonical verse then becomes contradictory to the 2 spots I quoted of otherwised canonized scripture... precisely why we have issues with it.
In fact in looking at my Catholic bible it interprets it as you mentioned saying that verses 1-8 explain why the postexilic temple was the legitimate place of worship even without the sacred objects... So based on your faith and your scriptures you are right and even still so am I based on mine...Shall we leave it at that or start a thread and study it further? it is interesting...
Peace my friend.

[Tom317]

Originally Posted by JaneFrances

No, you are incorrect. These were the words of the Blessed Mother at Fatima to the children as reported in dialogue accounts for July 13, 1917:

‘When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need.’

Yes, and Mary asked that the Rosary be said every day, which means the Fatima Prayer is said every day by Catholics.

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by JaneFrances

No, you are incorrect. These were the words of the Blessed Mother at Fatima to the children as reported in dialogue accounts for July 13, 1917:

‘When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are most in need.’

Link? of an official web page?

[NotWorthy]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

I see what you are indicating, but this duetrocanonical verse then becomes contradictory to the 2 spots I quoted of otherwised canonized scripture... precisely why we have issues with it.
In fact in looking at my Catholic bible it interprets it as you mentioned saying that verses 1-8 explain why the postexilic temple was the legitimate place of worship even without the sacred objects... So based on your faith and your scriptures you are right and even still so am I based on mine...Shall we leave it at that or start a thread and study it further? it is interesting...
Peace my friend.

Yes, perhaps another thread, but I'm not sure that they are contradictory. (I think) the fulfillment of these prophecies just may have come at a later time than originally thought (sort of like the two fulfillments of Isaiah 7:14). After the Ark was revealed to John in Revelation, it did disappear and was not missed again....... well, at least it wasn't missed until a certain Steven Spielberg movie in the 1970's, at least!

Peace to you, too. And I'll send those files in a little while!

[JaneFrances]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

Muslims believe in God, I am speaking of the teachings of Christ and Christs salvific actions.

Okay. . .???

Remember we are always told to hold fast the teachings of Christ.

I am aware that we should hold fast to the teachings of Christ, yes. . . ???

If I were teaching someone about Christ what could I tell them from the visions of fatima that tell that story?

Well, first I suppose you'd have to actually know the story. For instance, you would need knowledge of what the Blessed Mother did and did not say.

of Christ dying so we could have salvation?

The message of Christ's life, death and resurrection are implicit in the messages of the Blessed Mother. You have yet to provide proof of Satantic work in the message at Fatima. Questioning the things you think she didn't say isn't proof. It would be like me saying, "When I talked to myfavoritmartin last week, he didn't even mention Christ's dying, his message must have been Satanic."

Tell me, what reitirates this? the only thing I see is Mary saying praying to her Immaculate heart would save souls...

Once again, you are presupposing that devotion to the Immaculate Heart excludes Christ. This is not so. You will have to take our word for it as you obviously have no experience in such a devotion.

This clearly does not even begin to mention Jesus' teaching which we were told to hold fast to... does it???

Which teachings were those?

From reading the documented dialogue between the Blessed Mother and the children at Fatima, I particularly noticed the Blessed Mother's appeal for the children to suffer for sinners. This teaching clearly follows the gospel message of Jesus Christ. For as St. Paul says, "Even now I find joy in the suffering I endure for you. In my own flesh I fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ for the sake of his body, the church." (Col. 1:24)

In other documentation the Blessed Mother entreats the children to receive Eucharist, the Body and Blood of our Lord. This teaching, too, follows the instruction of our Savior as he teaches: "Let me solemnly assure you, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." (John 6:53)

SO, those are at least two of Christ's teachings imparted to the children at Fatima by the Blessed Mother.

What other sorts of things didn't Mary say that you wish she had?

[JaneFrances]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

Link? of an official web page?

OR how about this. . .First, you give us the official web page that you are using to find out all the things Mary didn't say that she should have in order to prove that her message wasn't Satanic!

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by JaneFrances

Okay. . .???

From reading the documented dialogue between the Blessed Mother and the children at Fatima, I particularly noticed the Blessed Mother's appeal for the children to suffer for sinners. This teaching clearly follows the gospel message of Jesus Christ. For as St. Paul says, "Even now I find joy in the suffering I endure for you. In my own flesh I fill up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ for the sake of his body, the church." (Col. 1:24)

I'll start with this Jane, Paul 1st is not saying Christ suffering was insufficient (you should state this when quoting this verse) that being stated the children viewing hell and suffering for sinners, how do they suffer FOR sinners.

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by JaneFrances

OR how about this. . .First, you give us the official web page that you are using to find out all the things Mary didn't say that she should have in order to prove that her message wasn't Satanic!

I would hope its not satanic, i've linked it twice... It is the translation by then cardinal Joseph Ratz... well B16 you know him... I'll go back to page 1 or 2 and find it Jane, okay?

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

I would hope its not satanic, i've linked it twice... It is the translation by then cardinal Joseph Ratz... well B16 you know him... I'll go back to page 1 or 2 and find it Jane, okay?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...fatima_en.html

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

Link? of an official web page?

Will this do? It reports the exact words she said to the child seers. Look under 'prayers' and then under 'Devotions' for where she tells the children to specifically to pray daily the Rosary (which in itself already addresses her as Mother of Jesus and Mother of God)

[myfavoritmartin]

Originally Posted by myfavoritmartin

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/co...fatima_en.html

Official enough Jane?