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  #1  
Old Jan 7, '07, 8:49 am
hengcymatthew hengcymatthew is offline
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Default Rapture, what about?

I've many friends who are Protestants and they are constantly talking about the Rapture. I have a rough idea of that, but how this Rapture being derived? Actually, I don't really get this whole thing.

I myself am a Catholic, and I've never heard of this term from my Church or from my ministry or from my parish priests.

What exactly is this about and what are the Catholic and various Christian denomination views on this?

Matt
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  #2  
Old Jan 7, '07, 10:21 am
Malcolm McLean Malcolm McLean is offline
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hengcymatthew View Post
I've many friends who are Protestants and they are constantly talking about the Rapture. I have a rough idea of that, but how this Rapture being derived? Actually, I don't really get this whole thing.

I myself am a Catholic, and I've never heard of this term from my Church or from my ministry or from my parish priests.

What exactly is this about and what are the Catholic and various Christian denomination views on this?
It is based on a literal reading of St Paul, where he says that people will be lifted up to meet the Lord in the air, at the second coming.

Catholics are not precluded from believing that this passage is meant to be a literal prophecy. However St Paul is probably referring to his own vision on the road to Damascus, and talking about his subjective experience.

Catholics do believe that Jesus will come again. However we tend not to go in for too detailed speculations about exactly what will happen and when.
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  #3  
Old Jan 7, '07, 11:23 am
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

Generally, if you hear the word "rapture", the person means an event that is separate from the Second Coming. This is not what the Church teaches. Malcolm has given you a passage often cited to support its separate existence (1Thes4:17). If you read the Vuglate, the word "rapture" is seen in there in Latin in the words we understand in English as "we will be caught up". Catholics do believe we will meet the Lord, but at the Second Coming, and not before.
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  #4  
Old Jan 7, '07, 11:26 am
Baraq Baraq is offline
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

Greetings Hengcymatt,

Most Denominations will agree that this occurs, the difference is WHEN. Most ( Catholics?) believe this capture of the living Saints happens AT the 2nd Coming(Day of Christ), whereas 'fundies' (self proclaimed fundamentalists) believe it happens 3 to 7 years BEFORE the Day of Christ. This is known as Pre trib or mid trib Rapture. Those who are sound in faith know this to be heretical.

These 'fundies' have elevated their distorted understanding of Pauls edification to the Church in Thessalonica and have developed an entire flawed system of theology around it. It develops into a religion of gnostic heirarchy of sainthood and escape from misunderstood prophecy as its foundation, rather than the One true Gospel that reconciles Gods people to him through our Lord Jesus Christ.

An orthodox Protestant understanding, very unlike the fundie dispensational Pre trib doctrine, of this event is found in the Belgic Confession(which I will guess is similar to the Catholic position- minus the Purgatory and other few differences)

"""Article 37: Of the Last Judgment.
Finally we believe, according to the Word of God, when the time appointed by the Lord (which is unknown to all creatures) is come, and the number of the elect complete, that our Lord Jesus Christ will come from heaven, corporally and visibly, as he ascended, with great glory and majesty to declare himself judge of the quick and the dead; burning this old world with fire and flame, to cleanse it. And then all men will personally appear before this great judge, both men and women and children, that have been from the beginning of the world to the end thereof, being summoned by the voice of the archangel, and by the sound of the trumpet of God. For all the dead shall be raised out of the earth, and their souls joined and united with their proper bodies, in which they formerly lived. As for those who shall then be living, they shall not die as the others, but be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and from corruptible, become incorruptible. Then the books (that is to say the consciences) shall be opened, and the dead judged according to what they shall have done in this world, whether it be good or evil. Nay, all men shall give an account of every idle word they have spoken, which the world only counts amusement and jest: and then the secrets and hypocrisy of men shall be disclosed and laid open before all. And therefore the consideration of this judgment, is justly terrible and dreadful to the wicked and ungodly, but most desirable and comfortable to the righteous and elect: because then their full deliverance shall be perfected, and there they shall receive the fruits of their labor and trouble which they have borne. Their innocence shall be known to all, and they shall see the terrible vengeance which God shall execute on the wicked, who most cruelly persecuted, oppressed and tormented them in this world; and who shall be convicted by the testimony of their own consciences, and being immortal, shall be tormented in that everlasting fire, which is prepared for the devil and his angels. But on the contrary, the faithful and elect shall be crowned with glory and honor; and the Son of God will confess their names before God his Father, and his elect angels; all tears shall be wiped from their eyes; and their cause which is now condemned by many judges and magistrates, as heretical and impious, will then be known to be the cause of the Son of God. And for a gracious reward, the Lord will cause them to possess such a glory, as never entered into the heart of man to conceive. Therefore we expect that great day with a most ardent desire to the end that we may fully enjoy the promises of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. AMEN."""
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  #5  
Old Jan 7, '07, 12:07 pm
6glargento 6glargento is offline
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

as far as im concenred, the rapture is the achilies heel of sola scriptura. Nowhere is the rapture explicitly taught in scripture it can only be dirived from biblical interpretation. the questions that we catholics need to ask rapture believers is:

"If you can dirive rapture teaching from biblical interpretation, why can't i a a catholic apply the same principal to catholic doctrines like the immaculate conception?"
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  #6  
Old Jan 7, '07, 12:30 pm
Fidelis Fidelis is offline
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6glargento View Post
as far as im concenred, the rapture is the achilies heel of sola scriptura. Nowhere is the rapture explicitly taught in scripture it can only be dirived from biblical interpretation. the questions that we catholics need to ask rapture believers is:

"If you can dirive rapture teaching from biblical interpretation, why can't i a a catholic apply the same principal to catholic doctrines like the immaculate conception?"
Unfortunately, since Protestant theology is so mallable and squishy, if pressed on this issue, most Protestants (if they believed in the Rapture theology in the first place, as not all of them do), would simply disavow this doctrine, and cling to Sola Scriptura, their personal interpretation of the Bible being their final authority, of course.
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Last edited by Fidelis; Jan 7, '07 at 12:40 pm.
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  #7  
Old Jan 7, '07, 12:38 pm
Fidelis Fidelis is offline
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

Anyway, to add to what others have already said, here's a brief Catholic perspective on the End Times.

When the Second Coming draws nigh (we have no way of knowing when, and all the "Left Behind" theories are vain and irresponsible speculation based on shoddy biblical interpretations), there will arise a time of Tribulation for the Church during which a last and definitive Anti-Christ will arise. When things seem to be their bleakest, the Lord Jesus will come, definitively defeat evil, and usher in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

In the meantime, when each of us dies, our souls are immediately taken to the presence of God and judged. This is called the Particular Judgment. At this point we begin our eternal destiny. If we are going to hell, our souls go directly there. If we are deemed worthy of heaven, our souls will go directly to heaven, or if we are going to heaven but are in need of purification, we may go to Purgatory first for a while (everyone in Purgatory will eventually go to heaven). Whatever our fate, our souls will stay there (heaven or hell) until the end of time, at which time the Second Coming will occur.

At the Second Coming at the end of time, those Christians still alive will be taken to heaven (what some Protestants think of as of the rapture). Then will occur the General Judgment. At that time the souls of the living and the dead will be reunited with their bodies and brought together in God's presence and judged before all. Those who have already been judged in the Particular Judgment will be brought from wherever their souls were -heaven, hell or Purgatory-- and have their judgment confirmed before all, so that both the justice and mercy of God will be manifest to all.

After this, time and Purgatory will be no more and all will enter with their souls and bodies into their eternal destiny, either hell or heaven.

This is an extremely bare-bones sketch, so if you want to get the details, see the five articles I linked below:

http://www.rosary-center.org/ll57n1.htm
http://www.rosary-center.org/ll57n2.htm
http://www.rosary-center.org/ll57n3.htm
http://www.rosary-center.org/ll57n4.htm
http://www.rosary-center.org/ll49n6.htm

In addition, you have to learn to recognize erroneous teachings about the End Times popularized by fundamentalists. In other words, toss out the "Left Behind" and "Late, Great Planet Earth" baloney. Here are some resources to help you develop some discernment in these areas:

http://www.catholic.com/library/rapture.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0011fea2.asp
http://www.catholic.com/library/false_profit.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0211fea3.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0001fea1.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9510ntg.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0209fea5.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812chap.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0304bt.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1997/9705chap.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea4.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9410fea2.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0009bite.asp
http://www.carl-olson.com/rapture_articles.html
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  #8  
Old Jan 7, '07, 12:38 pm
Baraq Baraq is offline
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Default Re: Rapture, what about?

glargento,

The statements of faith by sound denominations that are Sola Scriptura do not 'dirive' a pre trib rapture from scripture. The heresies of Darby were tested when expanded by Scofield and brought tomeasure against the Westminster Confession & was found violating a primary tenet of Scripture(ie.Unity of the Saints)

Pretrib eschatology has its basis in gnostic cults to beguile those denominations that are willing to ''rightfully divide'' scripture down to just a handful of verses.
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  #9  
Old Jan 7, '07, 12:59 pm
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Smile Re: Rapture, what about?

It is an unscriptural interpretation that was concocted in about 1825 by a Church of Ireland pastor named John Nelson Darby and didn't really catch on much until after the Civil War when C.I. Schofield included it in his "Reference Bible" (still around today...).

Here is a link to a FREE MP3 Bible study by John Martignoni that completely refutes this teaching.

The Rapture and the Bible and here are his notes so you can follow along.

If you want to learn more about what the Church teaches on the End Times you can get the newest study booklet from San Juan Catholic Seminars.
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