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  #1  
Old Jan 8, '07, 9:05 pm
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Default Simon, Bar-Jonah?

In Matthew 16:18, why did Jesus say, "Blessed are you Simon-Bariona" (son of Jonah), when Simon's father was named John?

Is John and Jonah two interpretations of the same name?
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  #2  
Old Jan 8, '07, 9:11 pm
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

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Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
In Matthew 16:18, why did Jesus say, "Blessed are you Simon-Bariona" (son of Jonah), when Simon's father was named John?

Is John and Jonah two interpretations of the same name?
Simon Son of Bar Jona is another term for Son of John.

Simon bar-Jona (Σιμων Βαριωνας from Šim`ôn bar-Yônâ, 'Simon son of Jonah,' or Son of John.
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  #3  
Old Jan 9, '07, 9:27 am
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

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Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
In Matthew 16:18, why did Jesus say, "Blessed are you Simon-Bariona" (son of Jonah), when Simon's father was named John?

Is John and Jonah two interpretations of the same name?
Yes, John and Jonah, are different translations of the same name. Actually neither name (John / Jona) exists in Hebrew or Aramaic, nor does the name Jesus. All of these "J" names are our english translation.
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  #4  
Old Jan 9, '07, 12:42 pm
runandsew runandsew is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Scott Hahn has an interesting take on this in his audio program "our fathers plan".
Just before Jesus made that statement, Jesus said "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah."
So when Peter states that Jesus is the Son of God, then Jesus responds back to Peter that he is the son of Jonah, in other words a son of Jesus. I probably butchered that but that was sort of the point Scott was making, i think...

Oh heck, listen to the program youself.
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  #5  
Old Jan 9, '07, 12:59 pm
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

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Originally Posted by runandsew View Post
Scott Hahn has an interesting take on this in his audio program "our fathers plan".
Just before Jesus made that statement, Jesus said "An evil and unfaithful generation seeks a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jonah."
So when Peter states that Jesus is the Son of God, then Jesus responds back to Peter that he is the son of Jonah, in other words a son of Jesus. I probably butchered that but that was sort of the point Scott was making, i think...

Oh heck, listen to the program youself.
This was one of the reasons I started this thread. I remembered Scott Hahn's reference to Jonah, linking it to Jesus, but I couldn't remember where it came from. I was hoping someone could help me out.

Thanks, Runandsew!

I also seem to remember that Jonah was one of the more famous high-priests of Israel, but I couldn't find any biblical sources (I searched through the Old Testament) about a high priest named Jonah, just the prophet.
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  #6  
Old Jan 9, '07, 7:47 pm
Mot Juste Mot Juste is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

I have a theory about what Jesus meant when he said that the only sign given would be the sign of Jonah. Most people know that Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days, and so a common understanding is that the sign of Jonah is Jesus' resurrection on the third day.

However there's more to the Jonah story. The reason Jonah refused God's call to prophecy is because he was told to go preach repentence or doom to Nineveh, the capital of Assyria. You have to understand that the Assyrians were the biggest enemies the Jewish people had. They were responsible for so much death and destruction. It was literally like being asked to go preach in Berlin during the middle of the Holocaust. The miracle, and what I believe to be the real sign of Jonah, is that everyone in Nineveh listened to Jonah, repented, foreswore evil, and turned to God.

It was inconceivable that these, the most evil and hated of all people, would repent overnight. Yet it happened. So what was the sign of Jonah that Jesus predicted in Luke's gospel? How about the equally inconceivable phenomenon of the explosive growth of Christianity in the Gentile world? The visible sign of the Holy Spirit's hand in the growth of the new faith.
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  #7  
Old Jan 10, '07, 7:16 am
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Jonah and Jesus are connected? You bet'cha!

Here's something from www.agapebibluestudy.com

THE TYPOLOGY OF JONAH AND JESUS


The story of Jonah foreshadows redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
JONAH JESUS
1. His mission was to call the gentile Assyrians of Nineveh to repentance and acknowledgement of Yahweh as the source of their salvation [Jonah 1:1; 3:1-2].

1. His mission was to call all of mankind, including the gentile nations, to repentance and into Covenant with Yahweh [Matthew 28:18-20].

2. Jonah was willing to sacrifice his life for the salvation of his shipmates [Jonah 1:12].

2. Jesus was willing to sacrifice His life for the salvation of the world [Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; John 1:29; 1 Timothy 2:6].


3. He was entombed in the belly of a great fish [Jonah 2:1].

3. After Jesus’ death He was placed in a tomb [Matthew 27:60; Mark 6:29; Luke 23:53].

4. On the third day Jonah was “resurrected” from the belly of the fish [Jonah 2:11].

4. On the third day Jesus was resurrected from the tomb [Matthew 17:23; 20:19; 28:1-10; Mark 9:31; 10:34; 16:1-7; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46].

5. After his “resurrection” from the belly of the fish, Jonah continued his mission to call the gentile Assyrians to repentance and salvation [Jonah 3:1-3].

5. After His resurrection from the tomb, Jesus continued His mission to found the universal Church and to commission the Apostles to spread the gospel to every nation on earth ;it is a mission that continues even after His Ascension [Matthew 28:16-20; Mark 16:12-20; Luke 24:13-53; Acts chapter 1].

6. Jonah preached that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days if the people did not repent [Jonah 3:4].

6. After His resurrection, Jesus taught the New Covenant Church for 40 days before His Ascension [Acts 1:3].

7. Jonah taught that failure to repent sin brings judgment but salvation is a gift of God [Jonah 1:1; 3:4-5, 9-10]

7. Jesus taught that failure to repent sin brings judgment but salvation is a gift of God [Matthew 5:21-22; John 5:22-29; 8:34-36; Luke 24:47; John 3:17; 5:34; 10:19; Acts 2:21].

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  #8  
Old Jan 10, '07, 10:31 pm
HailMary HailMary is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
Jonah and Jesus are connected? You bet'cha!

Here's something from www.agapebibluestudy.com

THE TYPOLOGY OF JONAH AND JESUS


The story of Jonah foreshadows redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
JONAH JESUS
1. His mission was to call the gentile Assyrians of Nineveh to repentance and acknowledgement of Yahweh as the source of their salvation [Jonah 1:1; 3:1-2].

1. His mission was to call all of mankind, including the gentile nations, to repentance and into Covenant with Yahweh [Matthew 28:18-20].

2. Jonah was willing to sacrifice his life for the salvation of his shipmates [Jonah 1:12].

2. Jesus was willing to sacrifice His life for the salvation of the world [Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; John 1:29; 1 Timothy 2:6].


3. He was entombed in the belly of a great fish [Jonah 2:1].

3. After Jesus’ death He was placed in a tomb [Matthew 27:60; Mark 6:29; Luke 23:53].

4. On the third day Jonah was “resurrected” from the belly of the fish [Jonah 2:11].

4. On the third day Jesus was resurrected from the tomb [Matthew 17:23; 20:19; 28:1-10; Mark 9:31; 10:34; 16:1-7; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46].

5. After his “resurrection” from the belly of the fish, Jonah continued his mission to call the gentile Assyrians to repentance and salvation [Jonah 3:1-3].

5. After His resurrection from the tomb, Jesus continued His mission to found the universal Church and to commission the Apostles to spread the gospel to every nation on earth ;it is a mission that continues even after His Ascension [Matthew 28:16-20; Mark 16:12-20; Luke 24:13-53; Acts chapter 1].

6. Jonah preached that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days if the people did not repent [Jonah 3:4].

6. After His resurrection, Jesus taught the New Covenant Church for 40 days before His Ascension [Acts 1:3].

7. Jonah taught that failure to repent sin brings judgment but salvation is a gift of God [Jonah 1:1; 3:4-5, 9-10]

7. Jesus taught that failure to repent sin brings judgment but salvation is a gift of God [Matthew 5:21-22; John 5:22-29; 8:34-36; Luke 24:47; John 3:17; 5:34; 10:19; Acts 2:21].

Exactly. And since Peter is now the son of Jonah, that makes Peter His son. Recalling the Prime Minister from Isaish, and the Keys and you have the Papacy.
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  #9  
Old Jan 10, '07, 10:37 pm
HailMary HailMary is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
Jonah and Jesus are connected? You bet'cha!

Here's something from www.agapebibluestudy.com

THE TYPOLOGY OF JONAH AND JESUS


The story of Jonah foreshadows redemptive work of Jesus Christ.
JONAH JESUS
1. His mission was to call the gentile Assyrians of Nineveh to repentance and acknowledgement of Yahweh as the source of their salvation [Jonah 1:1; 3:1-2].

1. His mission was to call all of mankind, including the gentile nations, to repentance and into Covenant with Yahweh [Matthew 28:18-20].

2. Jonah was willing to sacrifice his life for the salvation of his shipmates [Jonah 1:12].

2. Jesus was willing to sacrifice His life for the salvation of the world [Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45; John 1:29; 1 Timothy 2:6].


3. He was entombed in the belly of a great fish [Jonah 2:1].

3. After Jesus’ death He was placed in a tomb [Matthew 27:60; Mark 6:29; Luke 23:53].

4. On the third day Jonah was “resurrected” from the belly of the fish [Jonah 2:11].

4. On the third day Jesus was resurrected from the tomb [Matthew 17:23; 20:19; 28:1-10; Mark 9:31; 10:34; 16:1-7; Luke 9:22; 18:33; 24:7; 24:46].

5. After his “resurrection” from the belly of the fish, Jonah continued his mission to call the gentile Assyrians to repentance and salvation [Jonah 3:1-3].

5. After His resurrection from the tomb, Jesus continued His mission to found the universal Church and to commission the Apostles to spread the gospel to every nation on earth ;it is a mission that continues even after His Ascension [Matthew 28:16-20; Mark 16:12-20; Luke 24:13-53; Acts chapter 1].

6. Jonah preached that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days if the people did not repent [Jonah 3:4].

6. After His resurrection, Jesus taught the New Covenant Church for 40 days before His Ascension [Acts 1:3].

7. Jonah taught that failure to repent sin brings judgment but salvation is a gift of God [Jonah 1:1; 3:4-5, 9-10]

7. Jesus taught that failure to repent sin brings judgment but salvation is a gift of God [Matthew 5:21-22; John 5:22-29; 8:34-36; Luke 24:47; John 3:17; 5:34; 10:19; Acts 2:21].

a couple similarities is that Christ fell asleep on the boat and the Apostles got scared when a storm came just as Jonah was asleep on the boat when the storm came.

Both were the cause of the storm stopping.

Jonah <==> Christ

Jonah is a type of Christ.
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  #10  
Old Jan 10, '07, 10:39 pm
HailMary HailMary is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
In Matthew 16:18, why did Jesus say, "Blessed are you Simon-Bariona" (son of Jonah), when Simon's father was named John?

Is John and Jonah two interpretations of the same name?
Also, when Christ said son of Bar-Jonah, He effectively changed Peter's lineage at the same time (like in the case of Ruth).
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Old Jan 11, '07, 3:53 am
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

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Also, when Christ said son of Bar-Jonah, He effectively changed Peter's lineage at the same time (like in the case of Ruth).
How so? This is the point I was looking for in my OP, but I haven't quite connected the dots.
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Old Jan 11, '07, 12:10 pm
HailMary HailMary is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

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How so? This is the point I was looking for in my OP, but I haven't quite connected the dots.
When an Israelite marries someone outside their family, that someone's lineage is no longer what it previously was; their ancestors are now the ancestors of Isreal (we see this in the genealogy how Ruth's ancestors (not by blood but by marriage) are Abraham, Issac, and Jacob).

Remember that Ruth was NOT a Israelite.

Read the genealogy of Christ and you will see that Ruth was included in it. This is because when she entered into the house of Israel by becoming the wife of Boaz.

Ruth 4:13:
Quote:
Boaz took Ruth. When they came together as man and wife, the LORD enabled her to conceive and she bore a son.
and we read in the genealogy that,

Mattew 1:5:
Quote:
Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab. Boaz became the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth. Obed became the father of Jesse,
Hope that helps.
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  #13  
Old Jan 23, '07, 10:32 pm
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Why did Jesus call Peter the "son of Jonah" in Matt 16:17

Commentary (transcribed)
Jonah was known for going to which peoples – the gentiles in Nineveh.

Peter will, in a sense, be sent to the gentiles as well and will end up in Rome proclaiming the gospel to the Gentiles in the Roman empire.

The message of Jonah isn’t received in Israel, it is received in Nineveh – the great capital city of the Assyrians – the people who were oppressing Israel.
Peter like Jonah will be sent to the empire who is oppressing Israel and that is Rome and toits captail city and there the message of the Gospel will be heeded.

This is part of the sign of Jonah.

Source: - EWTN Series - The Gospel of Saint Matthew
Dr Tim Gray
Professor of Scripture
St Augustine Institute

It was literally like being asked to go preach in Berlin during the middle of the Holocaust. The miracle, and what I believe to be the real sign of Jonah, is that everyone in Nineveh listened to Jonah, repented, foreswore evil, and turned to God.

Source: taken from forum below

Personal note:
Do you think Jesus was referring to Simon's dad prior to giving Simon a new name :Cephas/Peter or was Jesus referring to Jonah in the Old Testament?
I prefer the logic contained in the above commentary by Dr Tim Gray than the confusing "John and Jonah name is basically the same name" argument. Why didn't the Matthew write down John in the first place if this was the case?

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  #14  
Old Jan 23, '07, 10:58 pm
HailMary HailMary is offline
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

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"John and Jonah name is basically the same name" argument.
Not to mention, if you know Aramaic or Arabic that those names are COMPLETELY different.
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  #15  
Old Jan 24, '07, 10:26 pm
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Default Re: Simon, Bar-Jonah?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HailMary View Post
Not to mention, if you know Aramaic or Arabic that those names are COMPLETELY different.
If you know Aramaic, Arabic, or Hebrew, these names don't even exist. These languages do not have the same alphabet as English. Translations of names to english sometimes use letters which do not exist in their original language.
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