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  #1  
Old Jan 12, '07, 7:21 pm
Asbestos Mango Asbestos Mango is offline
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Default Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Hi, new here, and, well, I'm just going to dive right in.

I suppose I should give you an explanation of the title.

I pray the Rosary daily, as well as the Divine Mercy and sometimes the Jesus Prayer. These devotions have become an important part of my prayer life. But I'm having trouble with reciting the Apostle's Creed.

The thing is this- when I'm praying, a lot of the time I just want to get down to the praying, especially when I'm feeling anxious or depressed. I'll just grab my rosary and...

recite the Apostle's Creed...

then I get to pray.

I'm starting to think of the Creed as something I have to slog through before I'm allowed commune with God or the Blessed Mother. I can understand it if your praying in a group of people, as an affirmation that we all share this particular set of beliefs before we pray together, but with private prayer, it seems to get in the way. I recite the Nicene Creed during the liturgy every week with the rest of the congregation, and, really, I think God already knows that I believe in all of the things that are stated in the Creed.

So, OK if I just skip it and get on with the praying?
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  #2  
Old Jan 12, '07, 7:33 pm
mercygate mercygate is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbestos Mango View Post
Hi, new here, and, well, I'm just going to dive right in.

I suppose I should give you an explanation of the title.

I pray the Rosary daily, as well as the Divine Mercy and sometimes the Jesus Prayer. These devotions have become an important part of my prayer life. But I'm having trouble with reciting the Apostle's Creed.

The thing is this- when I'm praying, a lot of the time I just want to get down to the praying, especially when I'm feeling anxious or depressed. I'll just grab my rosary and...

recite the Apostle's Creed...

then I get to pray.

I'm starting to think of the Creed as something I have to slog through before I'm allowed commune with God or the Blessed Mother. I can understand it if your praying in a group of people, as an affirmation that we all share this particular set of beliefs before we pray together, but with private prayer, it seems to get in the way. I recite the Nicene Creed during the liturgy every week with the rest of the congregation, and, really, I think God already knows that I believe in all of the things that are stated in the Creed.

So, OK if I just skip it and get on with the praying?
Pray the creed.

I'll never forget the time, as a new Catholic, that I woke up at 2:00 a.m. with the words, "Pray my Rosary" running in my head. "Pray my Rosary." I went downstairs to the place where I pray in the middle of the night and began, "I believe . . ." I stopped cold at the words: "conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary . . ." It took me an hour to pray the rest of the Rosary as I meditated on the words, "conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary."

I realized that in each of us, in me, Christ is "conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary."

Pray the creed, my friend. Pray the creed.
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  #3  
Old Jan 12, '07, 7:43 pm
Trevelyan Trevelyan is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Yes, indeed.

The creed is a prayer. It is particularly important in the rosary, because we start on the crucifix with the creed and this sets the foundation for our whole rosary - we affirm that anything and everything we pray for is prayed for, not according to our own will, but in conformity with God's will and his plan of salvation, in conformity with the faith of his Church, the true faith handed down from the apostles.

(Of course, it is a private prayer and there's no law against leaving any part out, but the creed is part of the rosary, prioperly speaking and I would say it's best to take the little bit of extra time to pray the creed.)
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  #4  
Old Jan 12, '07, 7:54 pm
Asbestos Mango Asbestos Mango is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Thanks for sharing that, Mercygate. That was beautiful.

The thing that prompted my question though, was an incident that happened last week. I was slow day at work, and I was feeling depressed because the past few weeks I have been making a real effort to turn my life around, be more kind and patient with people, especially my mother, etc. and Mom seemed to be responding by going out of her way to annoy me, and get nasty with me, and saying some very hurtful things. It seemed like she was taking advantage of my trying to be a better Christian and a better person and using it as an opportunity to punish me for the sins of the past.

So, I was at work, had some time on my hands, was feeling very hurt and depressed, so I went into my room to pray the chaplet of Divine Mercy, which is something I find very comforting and encouraging. But as I was saying the Creed, I didn't feel like I was praying. I felt like it was something I had to do before I would be "allowed" to pray, if you get my meaning.

And as for the Rosary, everything in the Creed is contained in the Mysteries of the Incarnation, which I'm meditating on every day. And if there was a particular statement in the Creed that I needed to meditate on, I'm sure that on that occasion, the Holy Spirit would move me to pray it.

But at this point in time, I feel like I'm saying, "OK, God, I believe all this stuff. Can I talk to you, now?"

Like I said, He already knows I believe.
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  #5  
Old Jan 12, '07, 8:08 pm
dulcissima dulcissima is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Maybe you can take the Apostle's Creed as an invitation to slow down and prepare yourself to pray. There is no need to rush into or through prayer. Remember, the rosary is a contemplative prayer. I feel like I appreciate the Apostle's Creed more and more each time I pray the rosary.
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  #6  
Old Jan 12, '07, 9:06 pm
mercygate mercygate is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbestos Mango View Post
Thanks for sharing that, Mercygate. That was beautiful.

The thing that prompted my question though, was an incident that happened last week. I was slow day at work, and I was feeling depressed because the past few weeks I have been making a real effort to turn my life around, be more kind and patient with people, especially my mother, etc. and Mom seemed to be responding by going out of her way to annoy me, and get nasty with me, and saying some very hurtful things. It seemed like she was taking advantage of my trying to be a better Christian and a better person and using it as an opportunity to punish me for the sins of the past.

So, I was at work, had some time on my hands, was feeling very hurt and depressed, so I went into my room to pray the chaplet of Divine Mercy, which is something I find very comforting and encouraging. But as I was saying the Creed, I didn't feel like I was praying. I felt like it was something I had to do before I would be "allowed" to pray, if you get my meaning.

And as for the Rosary, everything in the Creed is contained in the Mysteries of the Incarnation, which I'm meditating on every day. And if there was a particular statement in the Creed that I needed to meditate on, I'm sure that on that occasion, the Holy Spirit would move me to pray it.

But at this point in time, I feel like I'm saying, "OK, God, I believe all this stuff. Can I talk to you, now?"

Like I said, He already knows I believe.
You can always just talk to him. Sometimes you just need to drop the forms and get plain and personal. We pray in a hundred different ways. Sometimes you just have to go with what he is prompting.
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  #7  
Old Jan 12, '07, 11:13 pm
zzuftnnyl zzuftnnyl is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

One thing that I discovered... my friend gave me a nice laminated card with the Apostle's Creed on it, and I can focus better if I just read that card. Instead of saying the words alound or "in my head" I just read it. It helps me to concentrate. Maybe it could help get you past the dry spell with those words. You could just print a nice version of it off on the computer and keep it in your wallet or something. Just an idea.

And I don't think that variations on the rosary are a bad thing. It is probably best to do it as intended and you get the most out of it that way, but don't beat yourself up over it. Just do what you can.

Lina
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  #8  
Old Jan 13, '07, 2:24 am
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Traditional Ang Traditional Ang is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbestos Mango View Post
I was slow day at work, and I was feeling depressed because the past few weeks I have been making a real effort to turn my life around, be more kind and patient with people, especially my mother, etc. and Mom seemed to be responding by going out of her way to annoy me, and get nasty with me, and saying some very hurtful things. It seemed like she was taking advantage of my trying to be a better Christian and a better person and using it as an opportunity to punish me for the sins of the past.

So, I was at work, had some time on my hands, was feeling very hurt and depressed, so I went into my room to pray the chaplet of Divine Mercy, which is something I find very comforting and encouraging. But as I was saying the Creed, I didn't feel like I was praying. I felt like it was something I had to do before I would be "allowed" to pray, if you get my meaning.

And as for the Rosary, everything in the Creed is contained in the Mysteries of the Incarnation, which I'm meditating on every day. And if there was a particular statement in the Creed that I needed to meditate on, I'm sure that on that occasion, the Holy Spirit would move me to pray it.

But at this point in time, I feel like I'm saying, "OK, God, I believe all this stuff. Can I talk to you, now?"

Like I said, He already knows I believe.
Asbestos Mango:

I'm sorry to hear about your mother. What you're going through with your mother is something most of us have experienced during various times in our lives in Christ. Often people who've had negative experiences with Christianity take it out on the people they know who are most obviously Christian, and, sometimes, they do it in an attempt to "discredit" Cristianity - Thinking that if they can get us to retaliate to their sniping and rude behavior, it must mean that Christianity isn't as life-changing as we say it is.

It's her problem - Not yours, and I'm sorry you have to experience it. Christ means to make us all into saints, but that process is one that takes a lifetime of hard work, and many of us will need Purgatory to complete the process.

Prayer is a conversation. If what you need to do is to pray the Chaplet of Divne Mercy, by all means, do so. But, please don't consider the Apostle's Creed to be a Burden. It isn't just "What you believe." It's a short meditation on who God is and What Christ did and how the World will end. It's also called a "Prayer of Belief". In the Early Church, the Believers couldn't enter the Presence of God and do the Mass of the Faithful unless they all together had said this. and, Catechumens weren't allowed to say it until their baptism - They were even sent out of Church BEFORE the Creed was said.

We are talking to God in the Creed, and He is talking to us, reminding us who He is, and what He did and will do for us:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

AMEN.

http://www.creeds.net/ancient/apostles.htm

But the Creed isn't just "What you believe" and something to get through or dispense away with - It reminds us Who we are talking to.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael
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  #9  
Old Jan 13, '07, 4:41 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbestos Mango View Post
. But as I was saying the Creed, I didn't feel like I was praying. I felt like it was something I had to do before I would be "allowed" to pray, if you get my meaning.

.
maybe that is why we have to pray the Creed first.
we need to be reminded that all our prayer is grounded in these fundamental doctrinal beliefs, outside of which our prayer is meaningless and valueless. For many of us as the rosary meditation becomes more personal and the prayer more intense, especially in times of depression, stress as you relate we tend to inject our personal thoughts, feelings desires, and spin on the events we are meditating with. If we are not grounded in the creed when we do this, there is a danger of "rewriting" the gospel events and the prayers to suit our own situation and preferences.

we are meditating on aspects of the mysteries summarized in the Creed, so it is a perfect starting point for recalling the subject of those rosary meditations.
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  #10  
Old Jan 13, '07, 4:42 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbestos Mango View Post
But at this point in time, I feel like I'm saying, "OK, God, I believe all this stuff. Can I talk to you, now?"

Like I said, He already knows I believe.
does your wife/parent/child already know that you love them and believe in them? yes. do they like to hear from your own mouth as often as possible? yes.
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  #11  
Old Jan 13, '07, 6:04 am
CSN CSN is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

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Originally Posted by mercygate View Post
Pray the creed.

I'll never forget the time, as a new Catholic, that I woke up at 2:00 a.m. with the words, "Pray my Rosary" running in my head. "Pray my Rosary." I went downstairs to the place where I pray in the middle of the night and began, "I believe . . ." I stopped cold at the words: "conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary . . ." It took me an hour to pray the rest of the Rosary as I meditated on the words, "conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary."

I realized that in each of us, in me, Christ is "conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary."

Pray the creed, my friend. Pray the creed.

That is amazing.
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  #12  
Old Jan 13, '07, 11:19 am
Asbestos Mango Asbestos Mango is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Wow. Thanks for all the answers and advice, guys.

Actually, the Creed isn't so much of an issue when I'm praying the Rosary- it seems to be a part of the natural rhythm of the rosary prayers.

With the Divine Mercy chaplet, though, it has an almost artificial feel, like it was stuck on as an afterthought. I still pray it when I pray the Divine Mercy as part of my morning prayers, but a lot of the time if I feel like praying it during the day, I'll just give it a miss and go straight on to "Eternal Father..." and say the Our Father and Hail Mary at the end.

Also, when I'm praying the Rosary, a lot of the time, instead of the Salve Regina, I'll say a prayer to the Virgin of Guadalupe that I composed myself a few years ago. Usually, I do that when I have a special intention.
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  #13  
Old Jan 13, '07, 6:42 pm
Trevelyan Trevelyan is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

On a bit of a tangent: when I spoke to my confessor once about thinking of prayers as something I have to get 'over and done with', he told me to remember that he prays the Office, which comes from 'officium' - 'duty', and that it's not entirely wrong to think of prayers as a duty to be done.
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Old Jan 13, '07, 6:51 pm
Andruschak Andruschak is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbestos Mango View Post
Wow. Thanks for all the answers and advice, guys.

Actually, the Creed isn't so much of an issue when I'm praying the Rosary- it seems to be a part of the natural rhythm of the rosary prayers.

With the Divine Mercy chaplet, though, it has an almost artificial feel, like it was stuck on as an afterthought. I still pray it when I pray the Divine Mercy as part of my morning prayers, but a lot of the time if I feel like praying it during the day, I'll just give it a miss and go straight on to "Eternal Father..." and say the Our Father and Hail Mary at the end.

Also, when I'm praying the Rosary, a lot of the time, instead of the Salve Regina, I'll say a prayer to the Virgin of Guadalupe that I composed myself a few years ago. Usually, I do that when I have a special intention.

Do what I do, and say the Franciscan Crown aka Seraphic Rosary. Franciscan simplicity in action. Seven decades. No opening prayers or other preliminaries, just seven OFs and 70 HMs. Two more HMs at the end to bring the number of HMs to 72. A final OF and HM for the Pope, and to gain the indulgences. And this is a highly indulgenced rosary indeed. The decades can be seperated, ideal for someone like me. One is not required to meditate on the mysteries, just announce them.
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Old Jan 13, '07, 6:57 pm
Asbestos Mango Asbestos Mango is offline
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Default Re: Can I just chuck the Apostle's Creed? (devotional question)

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Originally Posted by Andruschak View Post
Do what I do, and say the Franciscan Crown aka Seraphic Rosary. Franciscan simplicity in action. Seven decades. No opening prayers or other preliminaries, just seven OFs and 70 HMs. Two more HMs at the end to bring the number of HMs to 72. A final OF and HM for the Pope, and to gain the indulgences. And this is a highly indulgenced rosary indeed. The decades can be seperated, ideal for someone like me. One is not required to meditate on the mysteries, just announce them.
I like the "regular" rosary- meditating on the mysteries helps train my mind toward Christ. And like I said, I don't really have a problem saying the Creed with the Rosary, it just seems like a natural part of it.

It's just that when I'm depressed or anxious, I tend to go for the Divine Mercy, and when I do that, I just want to dive in.
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