If we get the Motu Proprio on TLM

[decn2b]

If a Motu Proprio on TLM comes and it allows for the "freeing" of the TLM. It will have absolutely NO IMPACT on my diocese whatsoever. I am certain that the TLM has not been celebrated in my diocese anywhere for well over 30 years. I have not yet talked to one single person who has any inkling of what the TLM is. And I do get around in committees and circles in my diocese. Most of the active priests in my diocese are either too liberal to want it or too young to have any recollection of it. We have a New Bishop who has his hands full with diocesan bankruptcy to worry about a TLM. There has never been a local indult for the TLM. If the MP does come down soon and it does indeed have "teeth" I am happy for all of you that will benefit from it. Unfortunately I will not be able to share in that joy because of likely inavailibility of the TLM. Unfortunately I live in a small diocese with a new bishop that covers an extremely large rural geographical area. And without knowing really how the new bishop leans I can only say that my diocese from top to bottom administratively is very very liberal. I am not sure about the bishop though. I wouldn't comment anyway if I did know.

[Karin]

I am certain that the TLM has not been celebrated in my diocese anywhere for well over 30 years

Episcopally Approved Traditional Latin Masses in the United States and Canada
http://www.ecclesiadei.org/direct00.htm

check it out you may be surprised

[netmilsmom]

Pray, pray, pray and write letters to the Vatican.

2000 people sent letters to the Vatican before Detroit got their TLM.

Remember, this is God's timeline and not ours.

[tcraig]

You may get positive effects from it, anyway. There are many who believe that a wider celebration of the TLM will help spur reform in the NO.

My own personal opinion, and I am one who attended an FSSP TLM parish for 2-1/2 years, is that many Catholics want a TLM because the only other option is their horrendous NO. They aren't fleeing to the TLM so much as running away from their current "Mess".

I think that if more people had access to beautiful, reverent NO Masses such as the ones at Assumption Grotto there wouldn't be so much talk about the TLM.

[Joysong]

I agree with you Decn2b. This article shows that several states have no TLM whatsoever; namely, Mississippi, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Utah, Vermont, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

For a huge diocese like Detroit, I noticed only one parish that offers it. In two other Michigan dioceses, the TLM mass takes place only once a month.

Regardless of the M.P., it seems unlikely that there will be a profusion of TLM's in every diocese. I'm betting it will be the same as it is now, for although we have several vocal people on Catholic Answers, it is scarcely representative of the Catholics in the US.

DETROIT Archdiocese Detroit St. Josaphat Church W H Sunday: 9:30 AM
Holy Days 7:00 PM
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GRAND RAPIDS Diocese Grand Rapids Sacred Heart Church W Sunday: 12:30 PM
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KALAMAZOO Diocese Paw Paw St. Mary Church 3rd Sunday: 1:00 PM
replaces Mass in Matawan
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LANSING Diocese Flint All Saints Church W Sunday: 4:00 PM
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Jackson St. Joseph Church W Sunday: 10:00 AM
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MARQUETTE Diocese Gwinn St. Anthony Padua Church 3rd Sunday: 6:45 AM

[Karin]

GALLUP POLL (1990): TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS ATTENDANCE

In October 1990, the St. Augustine Center Association sponsored a Gallup
Poll, called Catholics' Attitudes toward the Traditional Latin Mass. The poll revealed that, even after more than thirty years since the introduction of the Novus Ordo Worship Service:

MORE THAN 3/4 OF U.S. CATHOLICS WOULD ATTEND THE TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS
AT LEAST OCCASIONALLY.

Specifically:

8% of Catholics would always attend the Traditional Latin Mass
17% would frequently attend
51% would occasionally attend
Only 23% said that they would never attend.

And these are low numbers because the polling was only of Novus Ordo Catholics and did not include traditional Catholics who were already attending the Traditional Latin Mass. In spite of persecution by the Novus Ordo apparatus, this number is estimated to be approximately 1,000,000 each Sunday.

SOURCE

[JNB]

The thing about Detroit though is unlike most diocese', it had not just one but 3(or maybe 4 a few years back) parishes that celebrated the Novus in Latin, facing the altar with communion at the rail and other traditional rubrics, so a Traditional leaning community was allready there in Detroit with various resources if/when a TLM was allowed.

Sadly many small dioceses do not have that luxury.

Originally Posted by netmilsmom

Pray, pray, pray and write letters to the Vatican.

2000 people sent letters to the Vatican before Detroit got their TLM.

Remember, this is God's timeline and not ours.

[Joysong]

Karin,

I'm not understanding the point you are making by providing the gallup poll, for my official gallup poll, not one done by a local association, shows a more authentic result.

The website that published this is known for its radical traditionalist bias, and in my past experience with these websites, I have found that they will not think twice to use falsehood in order to promote their cause. I would quickly blink at this "poll," question it at length regarding authenticity, and go to a more credible source than this.

Examples of their outlandish statements:

70% [really??] OF NOVUS ORDO CATHOLICS NOW HOLD AN HERETICAL BELIEF IN THE HOLY EUCHARIST.
Only 30% of Novus Ordo Catholics believe that they are really and truly receiving the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ under the appearance of Bread and Wine.

The poll results were presented to the U.S. Bishops at their annual conference of November 1992 at Washington, D.C. The bishops failed to take any action, but preferred to let 7 out of 10 Catholics remain in (at least material) heresy.

According primarily to Gallup Polls in various years, Sunday Mass attendance among Catholics in the United States has sunk by 400% since Vatican II. When asked whether they had attended Mass within the past week, the following percentage of Catholics answered yes:
1958: 74%
[with reductions along the way to:]
2001: 17%

A more reputable report disputes these statistics of those who do not attend mass, purportedly due to the N.O., and reveals a much greater number.

45% - 2004 vs 17% -2001 (your source)

http://cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/gallup.jpg

I think one needs to be a little more discerning.

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Joysong

http://cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/gallup.jpg

I think one needs to be a little more discerning.

well how accurate is your poll ..it is mixing two religions I would assume as the question being posed is..
"Did you yourself, happen to attend Church of Synagogue in the last 7 days or not?"
But your poll also does show that mass attendance had been on the decline

[Karin]

I'm betting it will be the same as it is now, for although we have several vocal people on Catholic Answers, it is scarcely representative of the Catholics in the US.

Originally Posted by Karin

GALLUP POLL (1990): TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS ATTENDANCE

In October 1990, the St. Augustine Center Association sponsored a Gallup
Poll, called Catholics' Attitudes toward the Traditional Latin Mass. The poll revealed that, even after more than thirty years since the introduction of the Novus Ordo Worship Service:

MORE THAN 3/4 OF U.S. CATHOLICS WOULD ATTEND THE TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS
AT LEAST OCCASIONALLY.

Specifically:

8% of Catholics would always attend the Traditional Latin Mass
17% would frequently attend
51% would occasionally attend
Only 23% said that they would never attend.

Originally Posted by Joysong

Karin,

I'm not understanding the point you are making by providing the gallup poll,

it was in response to your comment above

[Joysong]

I probably should have given this link instead of their map page, which was a more visual aid and easy to spot trends.

I think you will quickly notice how reputable they are as a source for Catholic information.

To be honest, I don't put a lot of faith in polls ... look how inaccurately they predicted the 2008 elections to the Republicans, based on poll results.

Nevertheless, I did take issue with the slander this website produced regarding 70% of NO Catholics don't believe in the real presence, and the bishops seemingly did not care. If my pastor took a poll at mass, I doubt he would get as much as a 5% response affirming it. Again, I considered your "source" as unreliable and inflamatory.

[Karin]

Originally Posted by Joysong

I probably should have given this link instead of their map page, which was a more visual aid and easy to spot trends.

I think you will quickly notice how reputable they are as a source for Catholic information.

The visual aspect still shows a decline in Mass attendance.. a decline in vocations (Priests and Sisters)..all of which is very sad, just my humble opinion.

Nevertheless, I did take issue with the slander this website produced regarding 70% of NO Catholics don't believe in the real presence, and the bishops seemingly did not care. If my pastor took a poll at mass, I doubt he would get as much as a 5% response affirming it. Again, I considered your "source" as unreliable and inflamatory.

well I was not promoting the website there Joysong ...I was only posting the part of the poll that I thought pertained to your assumption that the TLM is not wanted but by a small majority.
And your source does not deal with the assumption that you raised...that being that the TLM is not wanted but by a small majority...it only addresses the fact that mass attendance is in decline as is everything else
So can you show me a more accurate poll that shows how many folks want the TLM or do not want it???

[Joysong]

Nope.

I can only guesstimate from my initially posted website that very few parishes offer the TLM. From comments I have read on the forum, together with the general feelings of my geographical area ... "my opinion" is that that few want it. That's not to say the polls or opinions are accurate. We'll just have to see what happens after the M.P. I was merely stating that I did not believe anything would change, for reasons that have been discussed at length in other threads.

[netmilsmom]

Originally Posted by Karin

So can you show me a more accurate poll that shows how many folks want the TLM or do not want it???

Actually, I don't think it really matter whether the people want the TLM or not.
If the Vatican wants it to be offered, then it should be.
Past that, the market will decide whether it should continue or not.

With the bad rap that the TLM has gotten over the years, maybe "Pete in the Pew" just has no clue of what he is missing. Maybe he won't like it and want an innovative NO, but until it is offered everywhere, we will never know. Right?

[Karin]

Originally Posted by netmilsmom

Actually, I don't think it really matter whether the people want the TLM or not.
If the Vatican wants it to be offered, then it should be.
Past that, the market will decide whether it should continue or not.

With the bad rap that the TLM has gotten over the years, maybe "Pete in the Pew" just has no clue of what he is missing. Maybe he won't like it and want an innovative NO, but until it is offered everywhere, we will never know. Right?

Yup...

but then that is just my humble opinion