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  #1  
Old Jan 21, '07, 10:23 pm
Chancellare Chancellare is offline
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Default Theology of the Body

After reading many threads in CAF on the subject of morality and sex, I have observed that there is always a tendency to link sin, and sex (not always in the same order) with the workings of the human body in the 'flesh'. We even almost instantly associate flesh with sin!

In contrast, our Catechism teaches us that the 'flesh' is the 'hinge of salvation' and that our entire belief is founded on the fact that the Word was made 'flesh'.

That the very object and instrument of salvation is now endlessly painted as 'sin' is a real conundrum to me. To prove my point: one cannot find a thread in CAF about sex that is not associated with sin. Some posters even want to eliminate any thread that attempts to link sex and sanctity! One can easily feel the breath of suspicion from other posters(well-meaning at that) everytime there is a thread about sex, as if saying: "the body is bad, only the spirit is good". The one who planted this basic notion into man's thought has really done a good job! Makes one as the question: Aren't we experiencing a rebirth of the Manichean thinking?
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  #2  
Old Jan 21, '07, 11:17 pm
JezuUfamTobie JezuUfamTobie is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

A rebirth of Manichaean thinking? I guess I think of it more like... the last dying rattle of an age that refused to speak of sex at all! I mean, I don't think that Catholics 100 years ago had a more healthy view of the marital embrace than we do today. Otherwise Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body would never have been regarded as revolutionary. So anyhow, I don't see that the lay people of the Church are regressing or lapsing into heresy, but rather that the Church is just beginning to shake off the image that outsiders have had of her as being prudish and Manichaean. We're starting to assert what we truly believe as Catholics about the love between man and wife, even though we're still hearing the after-effects of a generation in which many people had the mistaken impression that marital sex was somehow dirty or bad to discuss.

But I think the good side is winning.
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  #3  
Old Jan 22, '07, 12:29 am
Chancellare Chancellare is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by JezuUfamTobie View Post
A rebirth of Manichaean thinking? I guess I think of it more like... the last dying rattle of an age that refused to speak of sex at all! I mean, I don't think that Catholics 100 years ago had a more healthy view of the marital embrace than we do today. Otherwise Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body would never have been regarded as revolutionary. So anyhow, I don't see that the lay people of the Church are regressing or lapsing into heresy, but rather that the Church is just beginning to shake off the image that outsiders have had of her as being prudish and Manichaean. We're starting to assert what we truly believe as Catholics about the love between man and wife, even though we're still hearing the after-effects of a generation in which many people had the mistaken impression that marital sex was somehow dirty or bad to discuss.

But I think the good side is winning.

JezuUfamTobie, I see your point as well as your being an optimist in the face of overwhelming trends. I have to admit that without reading JPII's works, my pessimism would have been way down. On a prophetic note, I pray that JPII's theology of the body will be the greatest miracle that will be attributed for the cause of his canonization.
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  #4  
Old Jan 22, '07, 12:33 am
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FightingFat FightingFat is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

Very good points. I do think things are a litlle negative here sometimes with respect to the human body, but nothing is as wonderful as a Catholic Marriage IMO so I figure it is a cry agaisnt the false morality that surrounds us today in modern society.
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  #5  
Old Jan 22, '07, 6:42 am
gorman64 gorman64 is offline
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Default Is This Manichaeism?

Quote:
In the performance of your profession, do your utmost to repel the attack of this refined hedonism void of spiritual values and thus unworthy of Christian married couples. Show how nature has given, truly, the instinctive desire for pleasure and sanctions it in the lawful marriage, not as an end in itself, but rather for the service of life. Banish from your heart that cult of pleasure, and do your best to prevent the spreading of a literature which considers as its duty the description in full of the intimacies of married life under the pretext of instructing, guiding and reassuring. In general, common sense, natural instinct and a brief instruction on the clear and simple maxims of Christian moral law, are sufficient to give peace to the tender conscience of married people. If, in certain circumstances, a fiancée or a young married woman were in need of further enlightenment on some particular point, it is your duty to give them tactfully an explanation in conformity with natural law and with a healthy Christian conscience.
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  #6  
Old Jan 22, '07, 10:43 am
StCsDavid StCsDavid is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

For those living in the Portland, Oregon area, St Cecilia's Catholic Church is conducting an 8-week series on Theology of the Body. Private message me if you would like more details.
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  #7  
Old Mar 10, '08, 1:53 pm
drhoganjr drhoganjr is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellare View Post
After reading many threads in CAF on the subject of morality and sex, I have observed that there is always a tendency to link sin, and sex (not always in the same order) with the workings of the human body in the 'flesh'. We even almost instantly associate flesh with sin!

In contrast, our Catechism teaches us that the 'flesh' is the 'hinge of salvation' and that our entire belief is founded on the fact that the Word was made 'flesh'.

That the very object and instrument of salvation is now endlessly painted as 'sin' is a real conundrum to me. To prove my point: one cannot find a thread in CAF about sex that is not associated with sin. Some posters even want to eliminate any thread that attempts to link sex and sanctity! One can easily feel the breath of suspicion from other posters(well-meaning at that) everytime there is a thread about sex, as if saying: "the body is bad, only the spirit is good". The one who planted this basic notion into man's thought has really done a good job! Makes one as the question: Aren't we experiencing a rebirth of the Manichean thinking?
When the Word was made flesh .does this mean when God sent Jesus?
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  #8  
Old Mar 13, '08, 6:58 pm
MGuevara224 MGuevara224 is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

That's a telling of the Incarnation. Jesus is the word, if you look at the first lines of the Gospel of John - it says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." When he talks about the Word made flesh, he's talking about the Word who was with God (Jesus the Son of God) taking on flesh. and living among us. Isn't that amazing!
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  #9  
Old Mar 14, '08, 12:01 pm
rwoehmke rwoehmke is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

When I consider that only fifty years ago after 16 years of education in Catholic Institutions the only knowledge taught to us about marriage was a 3 credit hour course in the Canon Law with regard to the subject. Followed by instructions from our priest that after tomorrow anything goes We were left to wonder what is this anything he's talking about.

Anything we had learned about sex in or out of marriage was basically playground hearsay. Parents didn't talk about it. Catholic schools were mum about it except to say girls shouldn't sit directly on a boys lap without a sizable telephone book under them and no steady dating or French kissing(without any indication of what French Kissing was. Is it any wonder that after Paul VI's encyclical over half of that generation choose to ignore him? The assumption being,"What does the Church know about sex?"

Has there been a sea change in the resources provided by the Church? Yes, but I hope it is not too late.
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  #10  
Old Mar 21, '08, 7:51 am
turtle18 turtle18 is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

Most of the talk on CAF is about sexual sin, not about sex. Of course, sex is inherently good when used as the gift God intended it for. But most of the posts I've seen have dealt with masturbation, homosexuality, birth control & pornography--all of these are disordered uses of the flesh and are sinful.
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  #11  
Old Mar 22, '08, 12:52 pm
nick aksureh nick aksureh is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

this thread on the Catholic Living Forum makes good references to sex, sin, & TOB, but only if you read it all the way through.

This more personal thread may give you a sense of where I am coming from.

In general, I think people seek knowledge and understanding about sex because they find their desires, behaviors, and activities in our world fairly contradictory to much of what the Church teaches on sex. I personally found this forum and became interested and involved with it primarily for this exact reason. Even after reading quite a bit of literature concerning theology, sexuality, and sin -- I still have trouble holding on without struggling and eventually losing out. I figured coming here could be a good permanent switch with constant feedback and development with out posters.

Obviously sex is a beautiful and unifying act, and demonstrates the marriage between Jesus and the Church. But I guess it's so easy for it to deviate from the true, narrow view. For example, if you think too much evil of the act or of the flesh that you mentioned, you've gone too far. Conversely, if you take a more liberal approach and ignore premarital prudence, you've clearly gotten yourself off course there as well.
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  #12  
Old Mar 24, '08, 3:20 pm
MickC MickC is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

The Theology of the Body has very little to do with sex and a lot to do with the value of the human being and the value of the person.

Pope John Paul II reminded us in "Love and Responsibility" that sin is "a function of the interior", or as Jesus Christ put it in the Gospel - sin comes from within the person. This is why the Pope wrote, Sexual modesty cannot then in any simple way be associated with the use of clothing nor shamelessness with the absense of clothing and total or partial nakedness. (Love and Responnsibility).

Nudity or nakedness is not in itself sinful, immodest or indecent - this would apply to the reason for being naked/nude and would explain why it is not sinful, immodest or indecent to climb naked into the bath or shower nude. It is also possible, we should note, to express a sin of immodesty or indecency while fully clothed through one's behaviour or words.

A tendency to over-simplify Church teaching in this area may result in the grave error of making judgements based on appearances (See John 7:24). This is something we are not supposed to do.

If nakedness/nudity is associated with sexuality, further error will result. Nudity/nakedness is descriptive of the natural state of the human being - which is of value to Jesus Christ. As such we are supposed to respect it - but do we?

This is where the Theology of the Body begins - challenging our perception of the body, how we see each other and how we respond to our neighbour.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. Nothing more.
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  #13  
Old Apr 4, '08, 11:01 pm
Mayo Mayo is offline
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Default Re: Theology of the Body

I read a book Edited by Jim C. Cunningham called Nudity & Christianity.. I learned a lot from it.I am wondering if anyone else has read it and what do they think of it?


Mayo
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