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  #1  
Old Feb 13, '07, 2:33 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default After Vigil to Protest Church Closing, Six Women Are Arrested

Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York
Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York
See News Article Here

Subject: OLQA Vigil Stopped By Force, with Six Arrested
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 15:02:09 +0000


Friends of VOTF:

I am sorry to report that the vigil at Our Lady Queen of Angels [in New York City] was stopped last night shortly after 11PM. We are still piecing together the complete chain of events, but as an eyewitness I can attest to the following:

A press conference was held outside the church at 2PM, during which the locks on the church lavatory were surreptitiously changed.

Several large men unknown to the parishioners appeared in the church around 7PM. These men turned out to be hired by the Archdiocese as security agents. The parishioners called the police because they did not know who these unknown men were.

All the doors of the church were locked by the security agents, and anyone trying to enter the church whenever the side door was opened was forcibly shoved back out into the street, including me. Police outside stood by while this occurred.

Priests from the Archdiocese entered the church at approx. 9PM and addressed the crowd of about 30 parishioners, including men, women and children, asking everyone to leave. The priests then retreated to the sacristy, and did not appear again...[truncated due to policy]

...
Regards,
FXP


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  #2  
Old Feb 13, '07, 3:02 pm
havemercy havemercy is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Trespassing? Unreal.
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  #3  
Old Feb 13, '07, 3:16 pm
Della Della is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

What disturbs me is the report to "friends of VOTF" (Voice of the Faithful) doesn't say whether or not they had premission to be using the main sanctuary for their "prayer vigil" or whatever it was all about. It's a decidedly one-sided report by someone with an agenda. Hardly convincing to me that they were the victims he wants us to think they were.
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  #4  
Old Feb 13, '07, 3:20 pm
trth_skr trth_skr is offline
 
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by Della View Post
What disturbs me is the report to "friends of VOTF" (Voice of the Faithful) doesn't say whether or not they had premission to be using the main sanctuary for their "prayer vigil" or whatever it was all about. It's a decidedly one-sided report by someone with an agenda. Hardly convincing to me that they were the victims he wants us to think they were.

First the group was reported as "parishoners". I am not sure if parishoners need "permission" to pray in their church. The news story I linked on my blog (link did not transfer) gives some additional detail and claims the parishoners threatened to stay there until the decision to close the church is reversed. The witness does not make this claim (nor denies it).

Mark Wyatt
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  #5  
Old Feb 13, '07, 3:26 pm
MaryD7 MaryD7 is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Della, I live in New York and saw it on the news. It was a pretty heavy handed way to handle the situation. The security was from an outside firm and they were shoving people.

It's a tough situation because the Archdiocese does need to do some cost trimming but to the parishioners, this is their home.
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  #6  
Old Feb 13, '07, 3:33 pm
MaryD7 MaryD7 is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Here is a link to the NY Times story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/13/ny...on&oref=slogin
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  #7  
Old Feb 19, '07, 3:09 pm
Michael C Michael C is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by Della View Post
What disturbs me is the report to "friends of VOTF" (Voice of the Faithful) doesn't say whether or not they had premission to be using the main sanctuary for their "prayer vigil" or whatever it was all about. It's a decidedly one-sided report by someone with an agenda. Hardly convincing to me that they were the victims he wants us to think they were.
I agree 100%. When I first heard this I witheld any opinion on the matter until I learned more. The letter addressed to Friends of Voice of the Faithful hardly helps their credibilty.

Where VOTF is involved you can bet there's a hidden agenda attached.
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  #8  
Old Mar 26, '08, 2:50 am
Yerusalyim Yerusalyim is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Quote:
First the group was reported as "parishoners". I am not sure if parishoners need "permission" to pray in their church.
Actually, yes, a parishoner needs permission to hold a vigil or protest on Church grounds which is, by the way, owned by the diocese.
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  #9  
Old Mar 26, '08, 11:55 am
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is online now
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Default Re: After Vigil to Protest Church Closing, Six Women Are Arrested

The emphasis seems to have been on publicity - camera crews etc. - more than prayer.
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  #10  
Old Mar 26, '08, 1:13 pm
Rand Al'Thor Rand Al'Thor is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yerusalyim View Post
Actually, yes, a parishoner needs permission to hold a vigil or protest on Church grounds which is, by the way, owned by the diocese.
No, the church is not owned by the diocese. A diocese holds the property in trust for the parish, but it does not own it. This came up in court cases in Portland.

In Christ,
Rand
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  #11  
Old Mar 26, '08, 2:28 pm
johnnykins johnnykins is offline
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Default Re: Intimidation at Our Lady Queen of Angels, New York

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand Al'Thor View Post
No, the church is not owned by the diocese. A diocese holds the property in trust for the parish, but it does not own it. This came up in court cases in Portland.

In Christ,
Rand
Unlikely that NYS will apply Oregon law in NYS. It may follow the decision in Oregon, but it may not.
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  #12  
Old Mar 26, '08, 4:09 pm
Dale_M Dale_M is offline
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Default Re: After Vigil to Protest Church Closing, Six Women Are Arrested

This thread is a year old, so I did a quick search to update the information:
Quote:
The doors have remained closed to all the congregants since the standoff on Feb. 12, 2007, but every Sunday for the past year, the women and dozens of other faithful have gathered outside to pray.
Quote:
The archdiocese has a handful of nuns living in the E. 113th St. building and a 24-hour security detail protects the structure - arguably from those who love it the most.

"What are they protecting against? Who are they protecting against?" said Patricia Rodriguez, 44, who leads the outdoor services. "You would imagine after two or three months they would see we're not knocking the door down, we just want to pray."

Every Sunday, the women - including a chef, a hospital administrator and a cashier - join 40 others for Mass on the sidewalk.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008...lem_churc.html
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  #13  
Old Mar 27, '08, 12:19 pm
Neil_Anthony Neil_Anthony is offline
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Default Re: After Vigil to Protest Church Closing, Six Women Are Arrested

Why didn't the bishop or a priest just ask them to leave? Surely, being Catholics, they would respect the request of a Priest and immediately leave.
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  #14  
Old Mar 28, '08, 10:28 am
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idrum677 idrum677 is offline
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Default Re: After Vigil to Protest Church Closing, Six Women Are Arrested

Not when VOTF is involved. I agree with MichaelC on this matter.

My former parish was closed about 8 years ago. We were small but as tightknit a group as any. When they decided to close our church it hurt a lot. The final mass was as emotional as any I have ever been to.

I was upset but also understood that it was in the best interest of the diocese. The missionary priests who staffed it were reassigned and we were absorbed into another parish.

Could we have had a vigil to "save our church?" I suppose but what is a church without the most important thing- the Mass. We could sit there until the walls crumble and would get nothing out of it.
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