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  #1  
Old Feb 27, '07, 8:07 pm
claude claude is offline
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Default Why does God allow killing?

If I am not mistaken, the commandment says thou shalt not murder. But murder is different from killing. God instructed the Israelites to kill their kinsmen and neighbors for worshiping the Golden Calf mere hours after scribing the 10 commandments. Killing is something the church has done through it's history with GREAT gusto, with the sanction of Popes (including the infamous Pope Innocent III with his all so famous quote:
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." )

Killing is an act that God has commanded his people to perform on MANY occasions. Murder is a different story. One can not murder an animal (according to scripture. I tend to disagree) It is this difference between murder and killing that has so confused the church. If it is not human it can not be murdered.

Remember, to sin is to against God's wishes. if he wants you to kill, then you have to and it can not be considered murder. If you refuse, then you have sinned. If he tells you to impregnate you brother's widow, you will, or he will kill you in turn (just ask Onan, (Genesis 38: 6-10)

Killing is very much allowed, but murder is another thing entirely. Why does God allow killing?
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  #2  
Old Feb 27, '07, 8:17 pm
metal1633 metal1633 is offline
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Default Re: Why does God allow killing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
(including the infamous Pope Innocent III with his all so famous quote:
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." )
This was actually said by Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux. He said it to a military commander named Simon of Montfort, Earl of Leicester, just before a major battle.
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  #3  
Old Feb 27, '07, 8:51 pm
Pax Pax is offline
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Default Re: Why does God allow killing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
If I am not mistaken, the commandment says thou shalt not murder. But murder is different from killing. God instructed the Israelites to kill their kinsmen and neighbors for worshiping the Golden Calf mere hours after scribing the 10 commandments. Killing is something the church has done through it's history with GREAT gusto, with the sanction of Popes (including the infamous Pope Innocent III with his all so famous quote:
"Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." )

Killing is an act that God has commanded his people to perform on MANY occasions. Murder is a different story. One can not murder an animal (according to scripture. I tend to disagree) It is this difference between murder and killing that has so confused the church. If it is not human it can not be murdered.

Remember, to sin is to against God's wishes. if he wants you to kill, then you have to and it can not be considered murder. If you refuse, then you have sinned. If he tells you to impregnate you brother's widow, you will, or he will kill you in turn (just ask Onan, (Genesis 38: 6-10)

Killing is very much allowed, but murder is another thing entirely. Why does God allow killing?
I'm not completely certain about your question or what you are driving at.

Nevertheless, it is important to note that as our creator God is the potter and has all of the rights over the "clay." There are a number of complexities concerning ancient man that have a bearing on why God would allow killing or even command it. In the course of time after the fall of man, the earth was populated with many barbaric pagan peoples. God selected the Jews as his chosen people as part of the process for bringing salvation to mankind.

When the time was right God chose the Jews as a way of introducing himself to men as the one true God. In battles with other peoples, pagans trusted in their gods for victory. Pagan beliefs were deeply embedded and were not easily rooted out. Even the Jews fells into idolatry at times.

God essentially demonstrated to the Jews that he was the one true God. He did this in part by vanquishing their enemies and by extention their false gods. This was probably something that was necessary for both the Jews and the pagans to see in order for them to realize that there is only one God. Not everyone was convinced and even today many do not believe in God. God's justice is not always easily understood by us, but one can see that the belief in pagan gods and all forms of idolatry could not be easily overcome. Stern and fatal measures were sometimes necessary because of the lack of sophistication within mankind. Moreover, God is just and there is no reason to assume that his creatures, which are insignificant by comparison, are not his to do with as he wills. God's purpose for man and desires for man required extreme measures to bring man out of the depths of his own depravity.

This is but one angle and not necessarily well developed or well stated, but I hope it helps.
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  #4  
Old Feb 28, '07, 3:15 am
claude claude is offline
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Default Re: Why does God allow killing?

There is all of the killing in the old testament, and then all of the killing in God's name during the crusades, the inquisition, etc.
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  #5  
Old Feb 28, '07, 8:45 pm
Pax Pax is offline
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Default Re: Why does God allow killing?

Claude,

I would say the following about the crusades:

1. The Crusades were waged against an enemy invader that had spread its own faith by military conquest. The purpose to liberate was good and is easily defended.

2. The Crusades were not bad in and of themselves.

3. Wars bring out the worst in people.

4. Some of the armies of the Crusades committed atrocities.

I would say the following about the Inquisition:

1. The Inquisition certainly had its dark side by today's standards.

2. The number of people that died as a result of the Inquisitions is grossly exaggerated. This statement is not designed to excuse the things were actually done, but is designed to offer some perspective.

3. Most people at the time prefered to be tried by those associated with the Inquisitions than by any other civilian authorities. The political, social, and cultural standards of the time were much different than today. The Inquisitions were gentler than the typical justice systems surrounding them.

4. Most people have a view of the Inquisition that does not correspond to the historical facts.

I highly recommend a book called The Spanish Inquisition: a Historical Revision by Henry Kamen. The author is a true scholar and happens to be an atheist. He is no friend of the Catholic Church but he has no axe to grind against the Church either. Kamen lays out the factual data and separates the monumental myths from the historical truth. After reading the book you will have a different view of the Church, the Inquisitions, and perhaps the historical circumstances of the times.

I hope this gives you a start in your quest for answers.
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  #6  
Old Feb 28, '07, 9:14 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Why does God allow killing?

Why does God allow killing? Because He gave us Free Will. But like most evil, God allows killing so that a greater good can come about.

Look at the stoning of Stephen in Acts. In Acts chapter 8, verses 1 and 4 you see:
Quote:
Now Saul was consenting to his execution. On that day, there broke out a severe persecution of the church in Jerusalem, and all were scattered throughout the countryside of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles. ... Now those who had been scattered went about preaching the word.
Notice how two things happen because of Paul's persecution of the Church, or the Body of Christ. First, the Church leaders other than the Apostles were scattered. Then they began to preach the word to Judea and Samaria.

Paul's killing of Stephen led to the Evangelizing of the rest of Judea and Samaria.

God works in wonderous ways!!!!
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Old Feb 28, '07, 9:24 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Why does God allow killing?

Another example of God's allowance of killing for the greater good.

Alexander the Great fought and slayed his way through all the civilized world. His armies killed and destroyed so many things. As a result of this they taught everyone the Greek language, allowing people from all over the empire to communicate with one another in ways never before done.

Then the Romans conquered the civilized world, killing and pillaging everything in site. As a result, they built some of the best roads in the world, some that even exist today. This allowed poeple throughout the empire to travel faster and safer than ever before.

Then in the early 1st century, a small religion forms in a backwater territory of Judea in one of the Roman provinces. Without the means of communicating with all the other parts of the civilized world, and without the means of traveling safely and quickly throughout the civilized world, this isolated religious sect would not have been able to grow so quickly and so effectively throughout the world.

God took two events that could only have been spawned by the devil (the Greek conquest and the Roman conquest) and used it to bring the good news of the Gospel to hungering souls everywhere!!!
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