Motu Proprio - When or If?

paramedicgirl · #1 Feb 28, '07, 1:56 pm

From this recent news story, it sounds like there is still hope that the Motu Proprio hasn't been forgotten. The interview is with the secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith. It's probably too long to post here, but here it is in part.

Current failure

Though noting positive results too, Archbishop Ranjith said that "the post-conciliar reform of the liturgy has not been able to achieve the expected goals of spiritual and missionary renewal in the Church."

"The churches have become empty," the 59-year-old said. "Liturgical freewheeling has become the order of the day, and the true meaning and significance of that which is celebrated has been obscured.

"One has to, then, begin wondering if the reform process had in fact been handled correctly."

Archbishop Ranjith recalled that the Second Vatican Council's constitution on the liturgy does not allow individual priests to modify the Mass.

"In the celebration of the Novus Ordo we have to be very serious about what we do on the altar," the Vatican official explained. "I cannot be a priest who dreams in his sleep about what I will do at the Mass the following day, walk up to the altar and start celebrating with all kinds of novel self-created rubrics and actions.

"The holy Eucharist belongs to the Church. Hence, it has a meaning of its own which cannot be left to the idiosyncrasies of the single celebrant."

Asked about a return to the Tridentine Mass or just a reform of the Novus Ordo, Archbishop Ranjith said: "An 'either-or' attitude would unnecessarily polarize the Church, whereas charity and pastoral concern should be the motivating factors. If the Holy Father so desires, both could coexist."

As to when or if a document "motu proprio" will be issued, "nothing yet is known," but, Archbishop Ranjith said, "it is the Holy Father who will decide. And when he does, we should in all obedience accept what he indicates to us and with a genuine love for the Church strive to help him.

"Any counter attitude would only harm the spiritual mission of the Church and thwart the Lord's own will."

devotus · #2 Feb 28, '07, 2:03 pm

A quick comment by Cardinal Arinze

The Catholic Herald:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/arinze.html

We move on to the long-awaited motu proprio in which the Pope is expected to liberalise usage of the Tridentine Rite (the pre-1962 Mass). The cardinal has little to say on this as it is not his responsibility, but he maintains it is still under consideration and that the Pope is keen that it won’t create division, hence the delays.

BobP123 · #3 Feb 28, '07, 2:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by devotus

A quick comment by Cardinal Arinze

The Catholic Herald:

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/arinze.html

We move on to the long-awaited motu proprio in which the Pope is expected to liberalise usage of the Tridentine Rite (the pre-1962 Mass). The cardinal has little to say on this as it is not his responsibility, but he maintains it is still under consideration and that the Pope is keen that it won’t create division, hence the delays.

Sad to say, the very fact of consideration has created threats of REAL schism by the liberal faction, most notably the French bishops. In my book they have already excommunicated themselves by such threats.

Personally I feel that this motu proprio isn't really necessary, not unless it forces those bishops who have not already followed the Ecclesia Dei guidelines to resign. If they don't like it, they can join the French bishops in their Church, where no one attends. So no big loss there.

paramedicgirl · #4 Feb 28, '07, 2:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobP123

Sad to say, the very fact of consideration has created threats of REAL schism by the liberal faction, most notably the French bishops. In my book they have already excommunicated themselves by such threats.

Personally I feel that this motu proprio isn't really necessary, not unless it forces those bishops who have not already followed the Ecclesia Dei guidelines to resign. If they don't like it, they can join the French bishops in their Church, where no one attends. So no big loss there.

I think that's exactly why the Pope is taking so long. He wants to get it right, so there is less whining about whatever his decision is.

Ham1 · #5 Feb 28, '07, 3:18 pm

We should all really support this point. I think Archbishop Ranjith is right one with this one:

Quote:

"...it is the Holy Father who will decide. And when he does, we should in all obedience accept what he indicates to us and with a genuine love for the Church strive to help him."

paramedicgirl · #6 Feb 28, '07, 3:22 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham1

We should all really support this point. I think Archbishop Ranjith is right one with this one:

And do much praying that his decision will make the trads happy!

**Friar David, O.Carm** · #7 Mar 3, '07, 11:58 am

I wonder why this was not reported here.....

Well on second thought I can see why it wasn't.

Pope's Latinist Pronounces death of a language

Within this article he says;

Quote:

He said reports that Pope Benedict will reintroduce the Tridentine Mass, which dates from 1570 and is largely conducted in Latin, were wrong – not least because of the Pope's desire to avoid more controversies. A speech last year offended Muslims and more recently he gave initial support to a Polish archbishop who was eventually forced to resign, after admitting that he had collaborated with the communist-era secret police.

"He is not going to do it," Fr Foster said. "He had trouble with Regensberg, and then trouble in Warsaw, and if he does this, all hell will break loose." In any case, he added: "It is a useless mass and the whole mentality is stupid. The idea of it is that things were better in the old days. It makes the Vatican look medieval."

Interesting, a source at the Vatican, the very guy who will translate the Motu Proprio from Italian to Latin says it isn't going to happen.

Swiss Guard · #8 Mar 3, '07, 12:08 pm

"It is a useless mass and the whole mentality is stupid. The idea of it is that things were better in the old days. It makes the Vatican look medieval."

A useless mass whose mentality is stupid and makes the Vatican look medieval. Such charity.

And here I thought only those who support the Tridentine Mass were uncharitable.

I hope all the anti-Tridentine Mass people remember this quote the next time they get on their high horse and pompously call Tridentine Mass supporters uncharitable or any other name.

Rolltide · #9 Mar 3, '07, 12:27 pm

New comments by Father Z:

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2007/03/envoy...tuff/#comments

I'm surprised more people haven't been discussing the equally intriguing upcoming Apostolic Exhortation on the Eucharist that may help reform the NO Mass. A rough draft of the proposed changes is out, and has gone virtually unnoticed. Here's a link to where you can find it:

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=135338

Uxor · #10 Mar 3, '07, 12:39 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

I wonder why this was not reported here.....

Well on second thought I can see why it wasn't.

Pope's Latinist Pronounces death of a language

Within this article he says;

Interesting, a source at the Vatican, the very guy who will translate the Motu Proprio from Italian to Latin says it isn't going to happen.

And he called the Mass said for 1500+ years where all the saints came from "useless and stupid mentality".

**Friar David, O.Carm** · #11 Mar 3, '07, 3:59 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uxor

And he called the Mass said for 1500+ years where all the saints came from "useless and stupid mentality".

Actually all the saints did not come from this Mass.

I agree that his comments are rough but what about the fact of who he is? He is the pope's latinist. Any documents from the pope go to him to be translated from Italian to Latin and he says it is not going to happen.

How about discussing that rather than words he chose to say it.

wynd · #12 Mar 3, '07, 4:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

I wonder why this was not reported here.....

Well on second thought I can see why it wasn't.

Pope's Latinist pronounces death of a language

Uxor · #13 Mar 3, '07, 7:51 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ByzCath

Actually all the saints did not come from this Mass.

I agree that his comments are rough but what about the fact of who he is? He is the pope's latinist. Any documents from the pope go to him to be translated from Italian to Latin and he says it is not going to happen.

How about discussing that rather than words he chose to say it.

I think his words are very relevent here, I don't care who he is, it was outragious for him to make such a comment. Yes most of the saints did come from the Tridentine Mass and God spoke to them how He wanted his Mass. Read the Old Testament..Moses would be a good start then start reading the saints, doctors of the church.

BobP123 · #14 Mar 3, '07, 8:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uxor

I think his words are very relevent here, I don't care who he is, it was outragious for him to make such a comment. Yes most of the saints did come from the Tridentine Mass and God spoke to them how He wanted his Mass. Read the Old Testament..Moses would be a good start then start reading the saints, doctors of the church.

Should also read the passage about the Tower of Babel. That's exactly where the Church is today.

paramedicgirl · #15 Mar 3, '07, 8:03 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uxor

I think his words are very relevent here, I don't care who he is, it was outragious for him to make such a comment. Yes most of the saints did come from the Tridentine Mass and God spoke to them how He wanted his Mass. Read the Old Testament..Moses would be a good start then start reading the saints, doctors of the church.

I remember that article, and I agree the comments were out of line, or outrageous, if you will. The Pope will make his mind up, I'm sure, to release the Motu Proprio in spite of all the negativism from others inside the Church.

I just wish he'd do it soon.