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  #1  
Old Mar 7, '07, 9:11 pm
shelleyrose shelleyrose is offline
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Default Define "Vicar of Christ

A friend told me today that she cannot understand someone converting to orthodoxy if they believe that the Pope, as "Vicar of Christ" is one and the same as the Eucharist and the Precious Blood. She was saying that our Pope is simultaneously Jesus' Body and Blood" by virtue of being the "Vicar of Christ". Please tell me this is NOT what the church teaches, is it? I have never heard of ANYTHING like this. What is she talking about....how is her logic derived? I sure hope some of you out there can help me because frankly this sounds like heresy to me.
  #2  
Old Mar 7, '07, 9:17 pm
RobNY RobNY is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelleyrose View Post
A friend told me today that she cannot understand someone converting to orthodoxy if they believe that the Pope, as "Vicar of Christ" is one and the same as the Eucharist and the Precious Blood. She was saying that our Pope is simultaneously Jesus' Body and Blood" by virtue of being the "Vicar of Christ". Please tell me this is NOT what the church teaches, is it? I have never heard of ANYTHING like this. What is she talking about....how is her logic derived? I sure hope some of you out there can help me because frankly this sounds like heresy to me.
Um. This is surely novel.

By saying that the Pope is the Vicar of Christ we mean that he is Christ's official representative on earth. Not that he is Christ.

As for where she got it from... beats me. It's truly... creative.

-Rob
  #3  
Old Mar 7, '07, 9:18 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

I've never heard of this.

The Pope is part of the Body of Christ, just like you and I are a part of the Body of Christ.

As the Vicar of Christ, the Pope is simply acting as the Prime Minister of the Church until Jesus returns in glory. Israel had a prime minister in the king's absence. What he opened, none could shut, and so on.

Egypt had a grand vizier. One of them was a Hebrew named Joseph. He was as powerful as the Phaoroh, save the throne (paraphrasing).

The Pope, as Vicar of Christ, helps to lead the kingdom on earth until the King returns.
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  #4  
Old Mar 7, '07, 9:41 pm
Bishopite Bishopite is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelleyrose View Post
A friend told me today that she cannot understand someone converting to orthodoxy if they believe that the Pope, as "Vicar of Christ" is one and the same as the Eucharist and the Precious Blood. She was saying that our Pope is simultaneously Jesus' Body and Blood" by virtue of being the "Vicar of Christ". Please tell me this is NOT what the church teaches, is it? I have never heard of ANYTHING like this. What is she talking about....how is her logic derived? I sure hope some of you out there can help me because frankly this sounds like heresy to me.
Your friend has gotten a few things twisted around. Perhaps she is thinking of the priest being "persona christi" which is in the person of Christ.
All the Popes even B16 are men with human souls, sinners and are NOT Jesus. Jesus has two natures one divine, one human called the hypostatic union, both being united together. Vicar means one who is a steward, majordomo, agent of someone else, in the case of the Pope, he is the steward of the King [Jesus] who has gone away for a time and has entrusted His kingdom to his "vicar" on Earth shepherding the flock (Mt 16:15-19)
The Eucharist is Jesus' body blood soul and divinity under the appearences of bread and wine and a great blessing, the source and summit of our Catholic faith.
  #5  
Old Mar 8, '07, 10:21 pm
Nita Nita is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Here's the Catechism on "Vicar of Christ":

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."[402] "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."[403]

894 "The bishops, as vicars and legates of Christ, govern the particular Churches assigned to them by their counsels, exhortations, and example, but over and above that also by the authority and sacred power" which indeed they ought to exercise so as to edify, in the spirit of service which is that of their Master.[426]

From the Glossary at the back of the Catechism:
Vicar of Christ: A title given to St. Peter, head of the Twelve Apostles and to his successors;, the Popes; "vicar" means one who stands in for or acts for another.

Nita
  #6  
Old Mar 9, '07, 9:44 pm
Pax Pax is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelleyrose View Post
A friend told me today that she cannot understand someone converting to orthodoxy if they believe that the Pope, as "Vicar of Christ" is one and the same as the Eucharist and the Precious Blood. She was saying that our Pope is simultaneously Jesus' Body and Blood" by virtue of being the "Vicar of Christ". Please tell me this is NOT what the church teaches, is it? I have never heard of ANYTHING like this. What is she talking about....how is her logic derived? I sure hope some of you out there can help me because frankly this sounds like heresy to me.
Use this misunderstanding as an opportunity. Explain to your friend that there are many things that are misunderstood about Catholic teaching and that this is simply one more example. If more people knew what the Church really taught they would be friendlier to the Church and would look at what the Church teaches with an open mind. Let her know just how damaging erroneous ideas can be.
  #7  
Old Mar 10, '07, 1:04 am
praise Him praise Him is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Vicar means in place of or a replacement for. As when someone lives "vicariously" through someone else that is where the word vicariously was derived.

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."- Pope Leo in an Encyclical Letter, dated June 20, 1894.The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII on page 304.

As we see here pope Leo was claiming the place of God
  #8  
Old Mar 10, '07, 4:00 am
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

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Originally Posted by praise Him View Post
Vicar means in place of or a replacement for. As when someone lives "vicariously" through someone else that is where the word vicariously was derived.

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."- Pope Leo in an Encyclical Letter, dated June 20, 1894.The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII on page 304.

As we see here pope Leo was claiming the place of God
Nice try, praise, but the Pope simply represents our Lord Jesus until His return. Just as the Prime Minister Hezekiah stood in the place of the King of Israel until his return.

NOBODY tries to replace God. Do you honestly believe that Catholics look at the Pope as God? How dense do you think we are?!?
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  #9  
Old Mar 10, '07, 5:18 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

You must not be Anglican, praise. . .look at all the vicars they have attending to churches, and they're PROTESTANTS, imagine that!
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Old Mar 10, '07, 5:21 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

"We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty"--even pulled out of context like that, does this say 'we hold instead of or in addition to or as a replacement?

When the prime minister of, say Great Britain, comes to a funeral of an American President, he is coming 'in the place' of his Queen. He is fulfilling his 'vicar' role in representing his Queen. He certainly is not himself the queen, but he 'holds the place' in this context.
  #11  
Old Mar 10, '07, 5:52 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelleyrose View Post
A friend told me today that she cannot understand someone converting to orthodoxy if they believe that the Pope, as "Vicar of Christ" is one and the same as the Eucharist and the Precious Blood. She was saying that our Pope is simultaneously Jesus' Body and Blood" by virtue of being the "Vicar of Christ". Please tell me this is NOT what the church teaches, is it? I have never heard of ANYTHING like this. What is she talking about....how is her logic derived? I sure hope some of you out there can help me because frankly this sounds like heresy to me.
A Vicar is someone who represents and has been given the authority to act for someone else.
  #12  
Old Mar 10, '07, 5:58 am
Todd Easton Todd Easton is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

The Catholic Encyclopedia has a short article on the meaning of "Vicar of Christ."

To me...
The Vicar of Christ as the wise and faithful steward whom his Master (Jesus Christ) has set over His household (the Church on earth) to care for His other servants (Christians) in until His return (Second Coming). (Luke 12:41-46; Matthew 24:45-51)

The Vicar of Christ is the man to whom Jesus Christ entrusted the feeding and tending of His lambs and sheep (Christians). (John 21:15-17)

As another poster has already mentioned, the Vicar of Christ is the man to whom Jesus Christ entrusted the keys of His Kingdom. (Matthew 16:18-19; prefigured in Isaiah 22:15-24.)
  #13  
Old Mar 11, '07, 6:43 am
praise Him praise Him is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

NotWorthy wrote

"Nice try, praise, but the Pope simply represents our Lord Jesus until His return. Just as the Prime Minister Hezekiah stood in the place of the King of Israel until his return.

NOBODY tries to replace God. Do you honestly believe that Catholics look at the Pope as God? How dense do you think we are?!?"

I didn't write this quote Pope Leo did.

""We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."- Pope Leo in an Encyclical Letter, dated June 20, 1894.The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII on page 304."

This book is readily available and can be purchased for about $10 at amazon. God bless !
  #14  
Old Mar 11, '07, 7:04 am
JMJ_coder JMJ_coder is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by praise Him View Post
""We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."- Pope Leo in an Encyclical Letter, dated June 20, 1894.The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII on page 304."

This book is readily available and can be purchased for about $10 at amazon. God bless !
Does this encyclical have a name - for those of us who do not have the book (or an extra $10)?
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  #15  
Old Mar 11, '07, 10:56 am
Pax Pax is offline
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Default Re: Define "Vicar of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by praise Him View Post
NotWorthy wrote

"Nice try, praise, but the Pope simply represents our Lord Jesus until His return. Just as the Prime Minister Hezekiah stood in the place of the King of Israel until his return.

NOBODY tries to replace God. Do you honestly believe that Catholics look at the Pope as God? How dense do you think we are?!?"

I didn't write this quote Pope Leo did.

""We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."- Pope Leo in an Encyclical Letter, dated June 20, 1894.The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII on page 304."

This book is readily available and can be purchased for about $10 at amazon. God bless !
You didn't write it but you feel quite comfortable stripping it of its Catholic context. The Catholic Church, her Bishops, Popes, and laity have never understood these kinds of statements in the way you do. Is there a reason for that?
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