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  #1  
Old Sep 3, '04, 3:35 pm
Kay Walker Kay Walker is offline
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Default Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

My best friend for the last 29 years became a Jehovah's Witness several years ago. I'm finally responding to the Holy Spirit's nudges to lead her to the truth and so we have a correspondence going right now about the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity (we live 2,000 miles apart). The letter I received from her yesterday "quotes" the 1967 New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol XIII, Page 575 as saying "The majority of the New Testament texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." She concludes that this is proof that Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit is God's "active force" and not a person of the Trinity. I'm sure she doesn't have a copy of the Encyclopedia, or even access to it, and this quote has been given to her out of context and misquoted. I checked Amazon.com and the newest version of the New Catholic Encyclopedia published in 2002 costs $1,580, so I'm hoping someone on this forum has access to the 1967 version that my friend is "quoting" from and can give me the correct text on this page. Help anyone?
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  #2  
Old Sep 3, '04, 8:10 pm
TertiumQuid TertiumQuid is offline
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Default Re: Help from a Reformed protestant

Hi Kay,

Try any good college library near you. I currently have 2 books from the New Catholic Encyclopedia set on my desk (vol 2 & 3), which I have on loan (due back soon!)

Regards, James Swan
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  #3  
Old Sep 3, '04, 11:00 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Lightbulb 1967 NCE

<< "The majority of the New Testament texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." She concludes that this is proof that Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit is God's "active force" and not a person of the Trinity. >>

It's probably baloney if you just read the entire article on "Holy Spirit" in the New Catholic Encyclopedia. The quote may be accurate, but I'm sure the entire article reveals all the places where the Holy Spirit is not only a Divine Person (Greek ekeinos = He in John 14-16), but God (Acts 5:3-4). Also copy the article on "Trinity" or related articles.

The big green volumes of the 1967 NCE should be at any of your local university libraries. I know all the major ones have it down here (Tampa Bay).

Phil P
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  #4  
Old Sep 5, '04, 10:36 pm
johnnyjoe johnnyjoe is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Hello,

I was skipping around working on this issue, and I found this website: http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-...-footnotes.htm


I think it would be a great place for you to start, since it seems to have done alot of the legwork you are trying to do for you....

Peace,
John
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"God has placed obvious limitations on our human intelligence,
but no such limits on our stupidity."
Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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  #5  
Old Sep 6, '04, 12:30 pm
Malachi4U Malachi4U is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

The web site mentioned above, bible.ca, is not only anti-Jehovah Witness it is also strongly anti-Catholic! It puts both denominations on the same cult page! This web site is at best deceptive and many of their 'opinions' I have found to be in error. Do not use this web site as fact or proof of anything since it will easily resort to misinformation to mislead anyone who reads their version of a jack chick tract. See this link: http://www.bible.ca/false.htmIf you want to prove the Jehovah Witness opinions false with information from bible.ca then please verify the facts for yourself before using them. What you read on that site could be true or it could be fiction.
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Malachi4U

2 Tim 4:6-7 "For I am even now ready to be sacrificed: and the time of my dissolution is at hand. I have fought a good fight: I have finished my course: I have kept the faith." Have you?
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  #6  
Old Sep 6, '04, 7:06 pm
Kay Walker Kay Walker is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Thanks for the help everyone. I have a good number of resources to help respond to her basic issues regarding the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity -- such as the Beginning Apologetics series from Catholic Answers and Answering Jehovah's Witnesses by Jason Evert, as well as the Catechism and a good Catholic Bible. Obviously, it bugs me if she (or whoever helped her compose her letter) is misquoting or taking a sentence or two out of the New Catholic Encyclopedia to make it look like Catholics are inconsistent in their teachings. So I was hoping to set her straight on that by finding the actual text. Unfortunately, I live in the middle of nowhere and getting to a university library is quite a hike. But considering what is at stake here -- a road trip to the nearest university is probably in order.
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  #7  
Old Sep 6, '04, 8:13 pm
johnnyjoe johnnyjoe is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi4U
The web site mentioned above, bible.ca, is not only anti-Jehovah Witness it is also strongly anti-Catholic! It puts both denominations on the same cult page! This web site is at best deceptive and many of their 'opinions' I have found to be in error. Do not use this web site as fact or proof of anything since it will easily resort to misinformation to mislead anyone who reads their version of a jack chick tract. See this link: http://www.bible.ca/false.htmIf you want to prove the Jehovah Witness opinions false with information from bible.ca then please verify the facts for yourself before using them. What you read on that site could be true or it could be fiction.
Thanks for the tip Malachi...I will be more cautious on my recommendations.
__________________
"God has placed obvious limitations on our human intelligence,
but no such limits on our stupidity."
Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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  #8  
Old Dec 1, '13, 1:28 pm
TheWayTheLife TheWayTheLife is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

I see this is a very old thread but I thought I'd make an update in case others came across it like I did. This thread came up as I was looking for the original source for two references given to me by a couple Jehavoh's Witnesses:

Quote:
“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [ne′phesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·khe′] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia(1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.
Quote:
“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.
I drove to the local university library and took a snapshot of ALL relevant pages from the 1967 edition so we can read these quotes in full context.

Here's the PDF of the relevant pages: http://bit.ly/1967CC4JW

I apologize there are couple pages that I didn't notice were out of focus but the vast majority is very legible.

I hope this helps future others that are researching this topic.
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  #9  
Old Dec 2, '13, 3:49 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

This is a 9 year old thread. They are not supposed to be resurrected. Anyone wanting to discuss the same topic should start a new thread.
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  #10  
Old Dec 2, '13, 6:55 pm
TheWayTheLife TheWayTheLife is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Sorry about that, and thanks for letting me know. I'm new to the forum world. Reviewed the "Forum Rules" and didn't see anything about responding to old posts. Must be a little t tradition thing? Will repost as a new thread. If I should delete the post above, and if there is a way to do so, please let me know.
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  #11  
Old May 2, '14, 1:37 pm
jamess222 jamess222 is offline
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kay Walker View Post
My best friend for the last 29 years became a Jehovah's Witness several years ago. I'm finally responding to the Holy Spirit's nudges to lead her to the truth and so we have a correspondence going right now about the divinity of Jesus and the Trinity (we live 2,000 miles apart). The letter I received from her yesterday "quotes" the 1967 New Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol XIII, Page 575 as saying "The majority of the New Testament texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God." She concludes that this is proof that Catholics believe that the Holy Spirit is God's "active force" and not a person of the Trinity. I'm sure she doesn't have a copy of the Encyclopedia, or even access to it, and this quote has been given to her out of context and misquoted. I checked Amazon.com and the newest version of the New Catholic Encyclopedia published in 2002 costs $1,580, so I'm hoping someone on this forum has access to the 1967 version that my friend is "quoting" from and can give me the correct text on this page. Help anyone?
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  #12  
Old May 2, '14, 1:38 pm
jamess222 jamess222 is offline
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Join Date: September 27, 2011
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

I personally read page 575 with that quote. However, as usual, it is taken out of context. Here is how page 575 begins:

God‘s Spirit as a Power: "As the result of the teaching of Christ, the DEFINITE Personality of the Third Person of the Trinity is clear". However, in most cases, the phrase “Spirit of God” reflects the OT notion of the “Power of God”.

God’s Spirit as a Person: "...in the new testament there is a gradual revelation that the Spirit of God is a Person".

It then builds from the JW quote.
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  #13  
Old May 2, '14, 1:40 pm
jamess222 jamess222 is offline
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Join Date: September 27, 2011
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWayTheLife View Post
I see this is a very old thread but I thought I'd make an update in case others came across it like I did. This thread came up as I was looking for the original source for two references given to me by a couple Jehavoh's Witnesses:





I drove to the local university library and took a snapshot of ALL relevant pages from the 1967 edition so we can read these quotes in full context.

Here's the PDF of the relevant pages: http://bit.ly/1967CC4JW

I apologize there are couple pages that I didn't notice were out of focus but the vast majority is very legible.

I hope this helps future others that are researching this topic.
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  #14  
Old May 2, '14, 1:42 pm
jamess222 jamess222 is offline
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Join Date: September 27, 2011
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Default Re: Does anyone have a 1967 edition of the New Catholic Encyclopedia?

Thanks a million. That really helped. They used to used Vol. 14 for that quote in error.
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