Once a Catholic...always a Catholic?

[Priscilla Ann]

Once a person is Catholic, is that person always a Catholic? Some of the things I have read on this forum leave me confused.

Some people say that if a Catholic does not accept all that the Catholic Church teaches, they are not really Catholic. I have also heard that someone who does not accept all of Catholic teaching is a heretic or in schism.

Others say that once a person is baptized a Catholic, they are always Catholic....even if they formally join another faith. I have also heard that there is no formal procedure for leaving the Catholic Church. Is that true?

Please understand that I am asking this question in a sincere, respectful manner. No offense is intended. I am simply curious about what the Catholic Church actually teaches regarding this issue.

God Bless!

PA

[Br. Rich SFO]

Originally Posted by Priscilla Ann

Once a person is Catholic, is that person always a Catholic? Some of the things I have read on this forum leave me confused.

Some people say that if a Catholic does not accept all that the Catholic Church teaches, they are not really Catholic. I have also heard that someone who does not accept all of Catholic teaching is a heretic or in schism.

Others say that once a person is baptized a Catholic, they are always Catholic....even if they formally join another faith. I have also heard that there is no formal procedure for leaving the Catholic Church. Is that true?

Please understand that I am asking this question in a sincere, respectful manner. No offense is intended. I am simply curious about what the Catholic Church actually teaches regarding this issue.

God Bless!

PA

No.

Once Baptized always Baptized. You cannot undo your Baptism. Baptism makes you a Christian and member of the Mystical Body of Christ. Yes, it is correct that the Mystical Body of Christ is the Catholic Church. So in that very broad sense it could be true.

A person is truly Catholic because they believe and practice the Catholic faith. It is true that a Catholic remains a Catholic and subject to the laws of the Catholic Church, even if they do not practice the Catholic faith, unless they have formally left the Catholic Church.

But it is possible to once have been Catholic and now no longer be Catholic.

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO

No.

So, no....it's not true that once a Catholic...always a Catholic?

Or, no....there is no formal procedure for leaving the Catholic Church?

Please clarify.

Thank you!

[LilyM]

It is true that there is not ordinarily any formal procedure for leaving the Catholic faith. Sometimes you may need to notify your local parish though, for example if you've pledged financial support to them.

It is also true that the vast majority of lapsed Catholics are only a good confession away from coming back as well, no matter how long they've been away or what they may have done. I think most of us would tend to call someone who doesn't believe in all the teachings of the church a 'cafeteria Catholic' (ie they pick and choose what they accept of Catholicism) and someone who's left a 'lapsed Catholic' rather than really saying they aren't Catholic at all.

There is a process known as excommunication. But this is merely a formal recognition that the excommunicated person themselves has, by their own acts, placed themselves outside the Church, rather than the Church casting anyone out.

In some instances, such as in the case of a person who has, procures, aids or counsels an abortion, this excommunication is automatically incurred by the commission of the act (ie there's no formal pronouncement that you are excommunicated or anything). But these types of excommunication are also mostly automatically lifted upon confession of the act.

We do belive also that some of the Catholic sacraments - baptism, confirmation, Holy Orders (ordination to the priesthood) - leave a permanent mark on a person's soul that their life thereafter never completely erases. We wouldn't, for example, require anyone to undergo any of these sacraments again upon their return to the church. In that sense being a Catholic is really forever

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO

No.

Once Baptized always Baptized. You cannot undo your Baptism. Baptism makes you a Christian and member of the Mystical Body of Christ. Yes, it is correct that the Mystical Body of Christ is the Catholic Church. So in that very broad sense it could be true.

A person is truly Catholic because they believe and practice the Catholic faith. It is true that a Catholic remains a Catholic and subject to the laws of the Catholic Church, even if they do not practice the Catholic faith, unless they have formally left the Catholic Church.

But it is possible to once have been Catholic and now no longer be Catholic.

Excuse my last post....I did not read down far enough to see all of your answer.

What is the formal procedure for leaving the Catholic Church?

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by Priscilla Ann

Excuse my last post....I did not read down far enough to see all of your answer.

What is the formal procedure for leaving the Catholic Church?

I think you misunderstood that post. No longer being Catholic doesn't mean someone's undergone a formal process to leave the Catholic Church. As I said, there isn't really one. They may have undergone a formal process to join another church or faith though.

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by LilyM

I think you misunderstood that post. No longer being Catholic doesn't mean someone's undergone a formal process to leave the Catholic Church. As I said, there isn't really one. They may have undergone a formal process to join another church or faith though.

So if a person has gone through the formal process of joining another faith, then they are no longer Catholic?

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by Priscilla Ann

So if a person has gone through the formal process of joining another faith, then they are no longer Catholic?

Well, they're a lapsed Catholic and a formal member of another faith, probably receiving communion in their new church. This means they've committed the sin of schism or heresy and probably violated Catholic teaching in loads of other ways.

All of this puts them in the same position as any Catholic who has grievously sinned - someone who commits adultery, say, or uses artificial birth control. They can't receive Communion or any further Catholic sacraments until they've confessed their sins. Other than that, no difference.

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by LilyM

Well, they're a lapsed Catholic and a formal member of another faith, probably receiving communion in their new church. This means they've committed the sin of schism or heresy and probably violated Catholic teaching in loads of other ways.

All of this puts them in the same position as any Catholic who has grievously sinned - someone who commits adultery, say, or uses artificial birth control. They can't receive Communion or any further Catholic sacraments until they've confessed their sins. Other than that, no difference.

So, it's a sin to leave the Catholic Church?

[LilyM]

Originally Posted by Priscilla Ann

So, it's a sin to leave the Catholic Church?

The extent of the sin depends on all sorts of factors, of course. What level of knowledge and consent the person has, for example.

A seven-year-old child leaving the church because its parents also leave is in a different boat to someone who's been Catholic for 30 years, thoroughly knows the faith and then decides to leave because, for example, they disagree with Church teaching on divorce or something.

But in most cases, yes.

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by LilyM

The extent of the sin depends on all sorts of factors, of course. What level of knowledge and consent the person had, for example. A seven-year-old child leaving the church because its parents also leave is in a different boat to someone who's been Catholic for 30 years, thoroughly knows the faith and then decides to leave because, for example, they disagree with Church teaching on divorce or something.

But in most cases, yes.

Leaving the Catholic Church is a sin? Which of God's ten commandments does that violate?

[CARose]

Pricilla Ann,

How about the 1st Commandment.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ to be the pillar and foundation of all Truth. He gave us this truth to be a visible authority over time, so that we might be instructed in all things as he instructed the Apostles.

That being said, yes, if one was a Catholic, and understands this truth, that the Catholic Church teaches God's truth so that me might be saved, and then, despite this realization, one chooses to turn ones back on that Truth and the Church that teaches it, yes, that would be a sin.

There are however, many Catholics who never had a full understanding of the gift they were given in their membership in the Church. They may have been poorly catechised or they may simply have not understood what was put before them (sometimes sin seperates us from truth, ultimately though, Faith is a gift of Grace and we need to be willing to accept the gifts we are given, they are not shoved down our throats, even if parents might try to do so).

So truly, in the end, only God knows the true disposition of the soul that leaves the Church. And it is this disposition of the soul that makes for a sin.

When one turns away from God, from having our Lord as our God, this is a sin. It can be either a Major sin (we call it a Mortal Sin) or it can be a minor sin (we call it venial), but either way, turning from God does damage to our soul and that's really what sin is, a seperation that we create between us and God, our willingness to cease doing the will of God and then taking action on our will.

It is also my understanding that one can formally leave the Catholic Church by informing their local Bishop of their intent to do so. This would relieve you of the Canon Law obligation to follow the teachings of the Church, but it would not change either Natural Law or Moral Law, both of which, as taught by the Church, but not being reserved to the Church, have been given to us for our own good. Living in accord with the teachings of the Church will allow us to live our lives most fully and hopefully with fewer errors to regret.

I hope this clarifies things.

God Bless,

CARose

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by CARose

Pricilla Ann,

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ to be the pillar and foundation of all Truth. He gave us this truth to be a visible authority over time, so that we might be instructed in all things as he instructed the Apostles.

That being said, yes, if one was a Catholic, and understands this truth, that the Catholic Church teaches God's truth so that me might be saved, and then, despite this realization, one chooses to turn ones back on that Truth and the Church that teaches it, yes, that would be a sin.

There are however, many Catholics who never had a full understanding of the gift they were given in their membership in the Church. They may have been poorly catechised or they may simply have not understood what was put before them (sometimes sin seperates us from truth, ultimately though, Faith is a gift of Grace and we need to be willing to accept the gifts we are given, they are not shoved down our throats, even if parents might try to do so).

So truly, in the end, God knows the true disposition of the soul that leaves the Church.

It is my understanding that one can formally leave the Catholic Church by informing their local Bishop of their intent to do so. This would relieve you of the Canon Law obligation to follow the teachings of the Church, but it would not change either Natural Law or Moral Law, both of which, as taught by the Church, but not being reserved to the Church, have been given to us for our own good. Living in accord with the teachings of the Church will allow us to live our lives most fully and hopefully with fewer errors to regret.

I hope this clarifies things.

God Bless,

CARose

Thank you for your clear, complete answer.

God Bless!

PA

[CARose]

Thanks, I hoped to answer your concerns.

I also added a couple of things to my post to cover your request for which commandment.

BTW, I know a little something about leaving the Church because I once did just that, albeit not formally. I learned that to have done so formally I would have needed to notify the local ordinary (bishop). I can tell you from personal experience that while I was away from the church and "doing my own thing" I made many errors that cannot be undone, and I am suffering the consequences of them in my life right now. I praise the Lord that I have been saved from the eternal consequences of these errors through the sacrament of confession and a truly contrite heart.

I now seek to follow the Church in all her teachings and have had much personal peace as a result.

CARose

[Priscilla Ann]

Originally Posted by CARose

Thanks, I hoped to answer your concerns.

I also added a couple of things to my post to cover your request for which commandment.

BTW, I know a little something about leaving the Church because I once did just that, albeit not formally. I learned that to have done so formally I would have needed to notify the local ordinary (bishop). I can tell you from personal experience that while I was away from the church and "doing my own thing" I made many errors that cannot be undone, and I am suffering the consequences of them in my life right now. I praise the Lord that I have been saved from the eternal consequences of these errors through the sacrament of confession and a truly contrite heart.

I now seek to follow the Church in all her teachings and have had much personal peace as a result.

CARose

With all due respect, the first commandment is:

"I am the Lord your God...You shall have no other Gods before me."

The Lord is my God.

PA