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  #1  
Old Mar 21, '07, 6:38 am
nickhe nickhe is offline
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Default blessed or relic oil and laity

I would like to post some texts and ask for some clarification or wisdom. I am ver confused about wether or not laity are allowed to use blessed oil it seems very clear yet in some ways unclear. I understand we can never simulate a sacrament or any way infer or allow people to belive they were recieving a sacrament. I have however hear that for centuries people have been using blessed oil for friends relatives and whomever. The two text that are in Question for me are these: I am not convinced this actually from Bishop Jacobs because it basically contradicts this second document On the Use of Blessed Oil
Bishop Sam Jacobs of the Diocese of Alexandria, Louisiana, and Chairman of the, US Bishops' Ad Hoc Committee on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal has issued a clarification concerning the statement in the Vatican document, "Some Questions Regarding Collaboration of Nonordained Faithful in Priests' Sacred Ministry" which reads, "Since they are not priests, in no instance may the non-ordained perform anointings either with oil of the sick or any other oil." (Article 9 n. 1). Bishop Sam Jacobs writes:
The document in question was addressing the issue of the sacrament of the anointing of the sick which can be administered only by an ordained priest. Non-ordained laity are not allowed to administer this sacrament with the Oil of the Sick nor to use any blessed oil to administer this sacrament. When I was in Rome in March for the Ad Limina visit, I asked Cardinal Ratzinger about this question. He assured me, in front of the other bishops from Region V, that the document was only referring to the sacrament of the sick and not to the ancient custom of lay people using blessed oil, even when praying for the sick, as long as a clear distinction was being made between the sacrament of the sick and sacramental use of blessed oil, as is done with blessed salt, palms, ashes, etc.

I asked that a clarification be made to the effect and he assured me one would be coming.

I think it is necessary that people don't extend the understanding of the authors of the document beyond their intention, which was limited and focused.

Bishop Jacobs has written to the appropriate authorities in the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, asking that the bishops in the US be informed.

As always, however, the guidelines of your local ordinary should be followed.

this is the one I thought was super clear

"In using sacramentals, the non-ordained faithful should ensure that these are in no way regarded as sacraments whose administration is proper and exclusive to the bishop and to the priest. Since they are not priests, in no instance may the non-ordained perform anointings either with the Oil of the Sick or ony other oil. ..."
am I missing something??????????????

Peace in christ
nick
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  #2  
Old Mar 21, '07, 7:13 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

In this diocese lay faithful have specifically been prohibitted from anointing anyone, sick or otherwise, with oil, blessed or not. This is because of the confusion that has arisen around this practices, as described in the documents OP cites.

since healing services with lay persons anointing people with "blessed oil" or ordinary oil have become so popular, priests have been finding the faithful have no understanding or appreciation of the use of the actual oils blessed by the bishop at the Chrism Mass-oil of catechumens, chrism and oil of the sick--and have lost therefore understanding of the sacrament of anointing of the sick.To the extent that chaplains report that if a sick or dying person in the hospital or at home is daubed with oil by a well-meaning friend, relative, or heaven forbid a lay EMHC, they think they have received a sacrament, and even more gravely, think their sins have been forgiven without confession.

It does not help that in some instances, use of oil by laypersons has been in the context of so-called "charismatic" services during which other abuses have occurred (heretical preaching etc). At the same time pastors have been asked to provide thorough catechesis on the topic of holy oils, and on the sacrament of anointing of the sick.

The bishop's response was also directed at a formal request from several deacons and lay persons, including nuns, who have been serving as hospital and prison chaplains, about getting special permission to confer the sacrament of anointing in the course of their duties. This also led to a firm prohibition on that practice, and recalled the definition of a chaplain, who must be a priest, regardless of what title is conferred by the hospital who hires these people.
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Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
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  #3  
Old Mar 21, '07, 7:21 am
nickhe nickhe is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

Yeah finally a real answer!!!!! I couldn't belive the way people tried to side step my question here in minnesota. That really helps thanks a lot I am in a prayer group and we have had it banned for a long time. I started to see among our friends a return and it was kinda off putting and they would site this communication by Bishop Jacobs as proof we could ignore no oils period.

Peace in Christ
Nick
Jesus and Mary we love you save souls
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  #4  
Old Mar 21, '07, 7:29 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

a well-catechized laity should have no trouble distinguishing between the use of sacramentals, including oil, salt, holy water etc., and the use of the oils blessed by the Bishop, and I think documents cited make the point that catechesis is at the root of the problem. Since experience has proven catechesis has lagged behind practice, the practice has to be addressed along with catechesis.

the other issue that has not yet been addressed, at least in this diocese, is that of lay people and deacons serving as hospital chaplains. This is a very common usage. We have one priest in the diocese who is a chaplain, and since there are no Catholic hospitals, the priests in parishes of each city that does have a hospital take turns and rotate "on-call" days for sick calls from hospitals, nursing homes, etc. In actual practice, it is nearly impossible to get a priest to answer an emergency sick call, in part because most of our priests are doing at least 2-3 full time jobs already and are often not even present in the parish. This means the person dispatched by the parish office is a nun, deacon or lay EMHC, who of course has no faculty for sacrament of anointing (let alone confession). Unless the family or individual has the foresight to schedule the sacrament when they first fall ill or schedule surgery, they end up dying without the sacrament. To my mind this is one of the gravest sacramental abuses now exisitng in the Church.
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Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
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  #5  
Old Mar 21, '07, 7:57 am
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickhe View Post
I would like to post some texts and ask for some clarification or wisdom. I am ver confused about wether or not laity are allowed to use blessed oil it seems very clear yet in some ways unclear. I understand we can never simulate a sacrament or any way infer or allow people to belive they were recieving a sacrament. I have however hear that for centuries people have been using blessed oil for friends relatives and whomever. The two text that are in Question for me are these: I am not convinced this actually from Bishop Jacobs because it basically contradicts this second document On the Use of Blessed Oil
Bishop Sam Jacobs of the Diocese of Alexandria, Louisiana, and Chairman of the, US Bishops' Ad Hoc Committee on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal has issued a clarification concerning the statement in the Vatican document, "Some Questions Regarding Collaboration of Nonordained Faithful in Priests' Sacred Ministry" which reads, "Since they are not priests, in no instance may the non-ordained perform anointings either with oil of the sick or any other oil." (Article 9 n. 1). Bishop Sam Jacobs writes:
The document in question was addressing the issue of the sacrament of the anointing of the sick which can be administered only by an ordained priest. Non-ordained laity are not allowed to administer this sacrament with the Oil of the Sick nor to use any blessed oil to administer this sacrament. When I was in Rome in March for the Ad Limina visit, I asked Cardinal Ratzinger about this question. He assured me, in front of the other bishops from Region V, that the document was only referring to the sacrament of the sick and not to the ancient custom of lay people using blessed oil, even when praying for the sick, as long as a clear distinction was being made between the sacrament of the sick and sacramental use of blessed oil, as is done with blessed salt, palms, ashes, etc.

I asked that a clarification be made to the effect and he assured me one would be coming.

I think it is necessary that people don't extend the understanding of the authors of the document beyond their intention, which was limited and focused.

Bishop Jacobs has written to the appropriate authorities in the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, asking that the bishops in the US be informed.

As always, however, the guidelines of your local ordinary should be followed.

this is the one I thought was super clear

"In using sacramentals, the non-ordained faithful should ensure that these are in no way regarded as sacraments whose administration is proper and exclusive to the bishop and to the priest. Since they are not priests, in no instance may the non-ordained perform anointings either with the Oil of the Sick or ony other oil. ..."
am I missing something??????????????

Peace in christ
nick
If we use some different terms it might make it clear.

"Consecrated Oils" are the three oils SC, OI, OC, consecrated by the Bishop each year during Holy Week. The Laity are never to use these oils or even be in possession of them.

"Blessed oils" are sacramentals and can be used personally by the laity. They are usually obtained at shrines or as third class relics.
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  #6  
Old Mar 21, '07, 8:03 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

quite right, some of us are very casual about using terms like bless and blessing (example confusion from using "blessing" when we mean "convalidation" of marriage). Also we frequently discuss confusion in these boards about blessings reserved to the ordained, and blessings permitted by lay persons, parents etc.
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Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
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  #7  
Old Mar 21, '07, 8:05 am
nickhe nickhe is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

ok see thats where my confusion comes in if thats the case and it may very well be. If we can confuse people and if the purpose of this document is to end confusion then isn't maybe trying to get us to stop using all oils. I also wonder if this is directed at charismatics. I guess as one of them and I use that word as a refrence I don't know what you think that means but anyways. I see the problem in the renewal. There are a lot of broken people that need sacraments not sacramentals. I guess you know everyone is different. We have a "healing mass" the priest prays over everyone that comes gives them an individual portion of the blessing then and only then if they feel like they need support or more prayer to they go to other prayer ministers. We go out of our way to make sure that we don't confuse people. I don't know I am rambling.
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  #8  
Old Mar 21, '07, 8:20 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

you are not rambling, you are expressing the same confusion expressed by many I know in this diocese, with regard to this issue. It was not addressed only at charismatics but they did feel affected by the rule.

The problem was that healing Masses became very popular (to the point of making national news at one point) and some abuses crept in. One was general absolution because of the great crowds. Another was anointing with oil without making a disctinction between the SACRAMENT and a blessing. Properly anointing is a work that should only be used in conjunction with the confering of a sacrament using oils consecrated by a bishop. Anything else, even if done by a priest, is a blessing, and blessing can only be done by those with the faculty to bless. The most prominent abuse was lay persons giving blessings not proper to them, using oil, and giving the impression, deliberately or accidentally, that the sick were actually receiving a sacrament and having sins forgiven.

I don't know what particular situation is being addressed in your own diocese, but I urge a very careful reading and reflection on the statements of your own bishop on this topic, and obedience to his directives.
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Whatever the Lord pleases He does, on heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. Ps. 135
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  #9  
Old Mar 21, '07, 10:25 am
nickhe nickhe is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

I also wanted ask a unrelated question. I have heard that gia or whomever invented the the middle of the lamb of God. I was always under the impression wrongly I think that you could use bread of life,saving cup etc..... I wonder because any mass i have been to that has no music always says lamb of God you take away the sins of the world have mecy on us. Does anyone know?
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  #10  
Old Mar 21, '07, 4:19 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: blessed or relic oil and laity

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickhe View Post
I also wanted ask a unrelated question. I have heard that gia or whomever invented the the middle of the lamb of God. I was always under the impression wrongly I think that you could use bread of life,saving cup etc..... I wonder because any mass i have been to that has no music always says lamb of God you take away the sins of the world have mecy on us. Does anyone know?
There are some versions that have the words changed. This is now prohibited.
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