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  #1  
Old Mar 28, '07, 5:42 am
Thnknprblm Thnknprblm is offline
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Default Sex between angels & humans?

I have read this before, but have never heard it explained:

"When people had spread all over the world, and daughters were being born, some of the heavenly beings saw that these young women were beautiful, so they took the ones they liked. Then the Lord said, "I will not allow people to live forever; they are mortal. From now on they will live no longer than 120 years."
In those days and even later, there were gaints on the earth who were descendants of human women and the heavenly beings. They were the great heroes and famous men of long ago."

Genesis 6, 1-4
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  #2  
Old Mar 28, '07, 5:50 am
Nagoda Nagoda is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

This is whats known as the Nephilim

Ive actually just finished a major paper on this for one of my university courses (it deals with the Nephilim as being the prototypes for the demons in christianity from a historical, literary and scholarly sense) I can post that here if you want my own personal scholarly opinion

As for the Church's teaching, I have NO IDEA what it would be of if they even have one. My own personal belief is that its a myth meant to explain the origins of the Caananite people and why they were so big (you'll notice in Numbers how the Caananites are called Nephilim or giants. Another name for them is the Rephaim.) and a problem exists within the scriptures because it never explains how there were Nephilim before and after the flood because the deluge supposedly wiped everything out except for the stuff on the ark. Also, Jude and 2 Peter make reference to the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees which expands greatly on this story and deals with the supposed fate of these angels mentioned in Gen 6:1-4. if ya got anymore questions just ask.
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  #3  
Old Mar 28, '07, 6:06 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

By Catholic definition, an angel is a pure spirit--no body. Therefore, any sexual relationship between human and angel simply cannot occur--bad movies or books notwithstanding. (Now, the Bible is not a bad book!) But the translation of my Douay Rheims of Genesis 6: 1-4, rather than speaking of "angels" instead uses "sons of God" and footnotes below: (from www.drbo.org)

2 "The sons of God"... The descendants of Seth and Enos are here called sons of God from their religion and piety: whereas the ungodly race of Cain, who by their carnal affections lay grovelling upon the earth, are called the children of men. The unhappy consequence of the former marrying with the latter, ought to be a warning to Christians to be very circumspect in their marriages; and not to suffer themselves to be determined in their choice by their carnal passion, to the prejudice of virtue or religion.
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I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful" (Ordinatio Sacerdotalis 4). Pope John Paul II.
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  #4  
Old Mar 28, '07, 6:08 am
Nagoda Nagoda is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Thats one of the theories yes it is more plausible for a believer but I did reject that for my paper heh.
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  #5  
Old Mar 28, '07, 6:09 am
fix fix is offline
 
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Here is help:

http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmes...&number=455303
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  #6  
Old Mar 28, '07, 6:30 am
Tantum ergo Tantum ergo is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

May I ask why you rejected it? It is, after all, the Patristic theory. As I noted, and fix's link seconds, given the nature of both men and angels, there is really no way for sexual relations to occur.
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  #7  
Old Mar 28, '07, 7:13 am
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buffalo buffalo is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Biblical Geography


....Palestine seems to have been inhabited about the fourth millennium B. C. by a population which may be called, without insisting upon the meaning of the word, aboriginal. This population is designated in the Bible by the general name of Nephilim, a word which, for the Hebrews, conveyed the idea of dreadful, monstrous giants (Numbers 13:33, 34). We hear occasionally of them also as Rephaim, Enacim, Emim, Zuzim, Zamzommim, and Horites, these last, whose name means "cave-dwellers", being confined to the deserts of Idumæa. But what were the ethnological relations of these various peoples, we are not able to state. At any rate, the land must have been thinly inhabited in those early times, for about 3000 B. C. it was styled by the Egyptians "an empty land".
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  #8  
Old Mar 28, '07, 9:22 am
Thnknprblm Thnknprblm is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagoda View Post
This is whats known as the Nephilim

Ive actually just finished a major paper on this for one of my university courses (it deals with the Nephilim as being the prototypes for the demons in christianity from a historical, literary and scholarly sense) I can post that here if you want my own personal scholarly opinion

As for the Church's teaching, I have NO IDEA what it would be of if they even have one. My own personal belief is that its a myth meant to explain the origins of the Caananite people and why they were so big (you'll notice in Numbers how the Caananites are called Nephilim or giants. Another name for them is the Rephaim.) and a problem exists within the scriptures because it never explains how there were Nephilim before and after the flood because the deluge supposedly wiped everything out except for the stuff on the ark. Also, Jude and 2 Peter make reference to the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees which expands greatly on this story and deals with the supposed fate of these angels mentioned in Gen 6:1-4. if ya got anymore questions just ask.
Thanks Nagoda! Yes, I would like to read it.
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  #9  
Old Mar 28, '07, 9:25 am
Thnknprblm Thnknprblm is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

2 "The sons of God"... The descendants of Seth and Enos are here called sons of God from their religion and piety: whereas the ungodly race of Cain, who by their carnal affections lay grovelling upon the earth, are called the children of men. The unhappy consequence of the former marrying with the latter, ought to be a warning to Christians to be very circumspect in their marriages; and not to suffer themselves to be determined in their choice by their carnal passion, to the prejudice of virtue or religion.[/quote]

But, it does call them heavenly beings in this passage.

[quote=Tantum ergo;2044668]By Catholic definition, an angel is a pure spirit--no body. Therefore, any sexual relationship between human and angel simply cannot occur--bad movies or books notwithstanding. (Now, the Bible is not a bad book!) But the translation of my Douay Rheims of Genesis 6: 1-4, rather than speaking of "angels" instead uses "sons of God" and footnotes below: (from www.drbo.org)

That was what confused me, Angels are a pure spirit.
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  #10  
Old Mar 28, '07, 9:26 am
Thnknprblm Thnknprblm is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalo View Post
Biblical Geography


....Palestine seems to have been inhabited about the fourth millennium B. C. by a population which may be called, without insisting upon the meaning of the word, aboriginal. This population is designated in the Bible by the general name of Nephilim, a word which, for the Hebrews, conveyed the idea of dreadful, monstrous giants (Numbers 13:33, 34). We hear occasionally of them also as Rephaim, Enacim, Emim, Zuzim, Zamzommim, and Horites, these last, whose name means "cave-dwellers", being confined to the deserts of Idumæa. But what were the ethnological relations of these various peoples, we are not able to state. At any rate, the land must have been thinly inhabited in those early times, for about 3000 B. C. it was styled by the Egyptians "an empty land".
Now that makes sense.
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  #11  
Old Mar 28, '07, 2:05 pm
Malcolm McLean Malcolm McLean is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantum ergo View Post
May I ask why you rejected it? It is, after all, the Patristic theory. As I noted, and fix's link seconds, given the nature of both men and angels, there is really no way for sexual relations to occur.
CS Lewise's theory is better. Angels are made of a substnace which is more solid than matter. Or we are the ethereal ones to them. Angels look like people, they can eat, they can talk, they wear clothes. However the normal understanding is that they don't have gametes. Only men and women, like God, can create new souls.
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  #12  
Old Mar 28, '07, 8:21 pm
Nagoda Nagoda is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

I rejected it because i wished to look at the nephilim as demonic protoypes- i go beyond the bible using the book of enoch and the book of jubilees to prove my point. anyways this essay is very long, so if you have the patience, please read. Heavy scholarly language ensues, if you have any questions on terminology just ask

http://yddr.blogspot.com
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  #13  
Old Mar 29, '07, 7:13 pm
Mintaka Mintaka is offline
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Default Re: Sex between angels & humans?

Some people have speculated that the Nephilim were part-Neanderthal. The Neanderthals were known to have lived in Palestine/Israel until comparatively close to our day, and anthropologists generally think that contemporary humans with particularly robust frames and big bony heads are probably part-Neanderthal. So a really hulking guy back then with a hero's bod might have been part-Neanderthal, too.

One of my anthropology teachers was a big proponent of the Neanderthal interbreeding theory (not the Nephilim part, AFAIK). He was always pointing out his big bony Irish head as proof. So he probably likes the caveman commercials, too.
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