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  #1  
Old Apr 12, '07, 7:59 am
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

Hi everyone. A friend of mine uses this verse to rationalize obeying the Old Testament law which we are free of in the New Testament. How do I refute this?
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  #2  
Old Apr 12, '07, 8:46 am
SueKrum SueKrum is offline
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Default Re: "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

I'm not sure of the scripture referances, but we are still held accountable for PART of the law (ex. the ten commandments).

Paul makes a reference in the book of Galations to the fact the circumcision is no longer required. Gal 5:6 says For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. I would reccomend reading the entire chapter to get the scripture in it's full context. However, from what I understand, we are no longer bound by the ritual laws. Does your friend think we still have to sacrafice bulls and lambs and such? We ARE still required to fallow the MORAL laws. It's a sin to commit adultry, it is not a sin to pick up a piece of garbage on the sabbath. it is a sin to steal, it is not a sin for a women who is on her cycle to leave the house.

There are all sorts of old testamate rituals reguarding cleanlyness and such that we are no longer held to.

I'm no Bible scholar, so I'm sure someone else on here will have some better scriptures for you.
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Old Apr 12, '07, 8:55 am
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Default Re: "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SueKrum View Post
I'm not sure of the scripture referances, but we are still held accountable for PART of the law (ex. the ten commandments).

Paul makes a reference in the book of Galations to the fact the circumcision is no longer required. Gal 5:6 says For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. I would reccomend reading the entire chapter to get the scripture in it's full context. However, from what I understand, we are no longer bound by the ritual laws. Does your friend think we still have to sacrafice bulls and lambs and such? We ARE still required to fallow the MORAL laws. It's a sin to commit adultry, it is not a sin to pick up a piece of garbage on the sabbath. it is a sin to steal, it is not a sin for a women who is on her cycle to leave the house.

There are all sorts of old testamate rituals reguarding cleanlyness and such that we are no longer held to.

I'm no Bible scholar, so I'm sure someone else on here will have some better scriptures for you.
I have no idea what she believes. She is a Messianic Jew so I guess she no longer believes in ritual sacrifice.
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  #4  
Old Apr 12, '07, 9:03 am
SueKrum SueKrum is offline
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Default Re: "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

oh, I see. I don' t know anyone who belongs to that particular group of people. maybe you should do a search on, Rosilen Moss (probably spelling her name wrong) she is a Jewish convert and some of her books could probably answer your questions. There is another guy, who wrote a book called "salvation is from the Jews" (I don't particulary care for the book, but he may be able to help your arguement as well) both of these people are now Catholics, so they obviously don't live under the law anymore. There may be some stuff on Catholic.com Rosolin is on Catholic Answers Live sometimes.
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Old Apr 12, '07, 9:07 am
MariaG MariaG is offline
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Default Re: "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

Messianic Jews are more like Baptists or non-denominational (Which are frequently baptist ) than Jews. Many "messianic Jews", were never Jewish to begin with.
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Old Apr 12, '07, 9:14 am
MariaG MariaG is offline
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Default Re: "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

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Originally Posted by Holly3278 View Post
Hi everyone. A friend of mine uses this verse to rationalize obeying the Old Testament law which we are free of in the New Testament. How do I refute this?
This is the Bible verse she is refering to.

Matt 5:17[17] "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

But if we read the next verse, we see that her interpretation is faulty since the heaven and earth have NOT passed away.

[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

And upon even further reading we see this.

[19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
[20] For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
[21] "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.'
[22] But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, `You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.

The Catholic church is the only church to understand that the only reason we are not under the laws of the pharisees is because Jesus transferred that authority to Peter and the Catholic Church. We are under the authority that Christ placed over us, the Catholic church.

The church changed the laws as they were given authority by Christ to do so Matthew 16:18? (bind and loose).
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  #7  
Old Apr 12, '07, 2:27 pm
PraRFLEsEkHm PraRFLEsEkHm is offline
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Default Re: "I didn't come to change the law, but to fulfill it."

This may also help some in establishing that the new law is the Law of Faith....AND that the old Mosaic Law (Ten Commandments) is still in effect as that is how we come to know sin.


Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.


Rom 3:21 ¶ But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;


Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Rom 3:26 To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Rom 3:27 ¶ Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.


Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Rom 3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:


Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.


Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
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