Is Messianic Judaism Really this Wacky?

[bwv 1080]

"Apostolic Judaism is not a denomination. It is a technical description of what the first century church was. They met in the synagogue, observed Torah and all of what was Judaism"

From a forum discussion at:
http://www.christianforums.com/t863368&page=3


They make usual set of claims of a first-century apostasy, Constantine introducing pagan sun-worship etc. follow. Not knowing too much about the group, I always assumed they were evangelicals who had added or retained some relatively harmless jewish customs like celebrating passover meals. But these people are combining fringe fundementalist anti-Catholic beliefs with modern liberal scholarship that paints the Church, and especially the Nicene fathers as raving anti-semites and coming to conclusions such as anti-semitism being the root cause of the early Church's slide into "apostasy".

They seem almost as equally critical of classic Protestantism (Martin Luther's anti-semitism perhaps being a particular sticking point), I do not see either Catholic or Protestant Apologetics looking much at this group. Any thoughts?

[bwv 1080]

At least some of these groups deny the Trinity:

"Because the Scriptures teach the fulness of the Godhead bodily was in Jesus, we reject the trinity doctrine that there are three gods represented in three distinct persons. The first followers of the Messianic Judaism of Jesus did not know of a trinity doctrine. It was not formulated until 325AD and is therefore not a binding Messianic doctrine of the New Testament Messianic faith. No true Jewish Messianic believer in Jesus or a Messianic Gentile convert believes in a trinity of Gods.
"
http://jesus-messiah.com/resources/statements.html

[jurist12]

Some "Messianic Jews" are little more than Jewish Evangelicals that keep some customs of Judaism others see Christianity as it developed as a "distortion" of authentic Christianity. They see Jesus as the Messiah who fulfilled Judaism but did not abrogate it, in other words they see Christianity as completed Judaism. To them Christian worship and doctrine is Jewish and should follow the pattern of the Synagogue with no formal "hierarchy" or at least not the type that Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox Churches are structured and as such they see all forms of current Christianity as distortions and a "paganisation" of what authentic Christianity ought to be. One good example would be that Christmas and Easter are pagan holidays that 1st century Christians abhorred, along with Saint's feast days, instead authentic Christianity would retain all the Jewish Holy Days and Festivals. In Christ, jurist12

[Jermosh]

The early church was infact Messianic Jews, this then split to many other groups. But it was only the paulists who held the ground, this then turned into the modern Church today. I think according to ACTs that in reality, all Catholics are Messianic Jews. We had the old laws removed from obligation by the magisterium(apostles). St Paul also taught that circumsion was a internal mark that we accept.

[bwv 1080]

Originally Posted by Jermosh

The early church was infact Messianic Jews, this then split to many other groups. But it was only the paulists who held the ground, this then turned into the modern Church today. I think according to ACTs that in reality, all Catholics are Messianic Jews. We had the old laws removed from obligation by the magisterium(apostles). St Paul also taught that circumsion was a internal mark that we accept.

Ok. but aren't Messianic Jews a recent invention? Certainly the early Church had a heavily Jewish makeup, but I doubt they were at all like the modern dispensationalist evangelicals who comprise this movement today.

[boppysbud]

Messianic "Jews" are a very diverse group. Most are not really Jewish at all (which is why I used the quotes), but are fundamentalist protestants in "jewish drag". These MJs are really out to convert Jews to fundamental protestantism. My local fundamentalist tv station has been taken over by MJs, and you quckly see that they have little in common with real, traditional Jewish people.

Real Jewish worship is liturgical, formal, and uses accapella singing.
The MJ worship I have seen on the tv station, is un liturgical (they make up their prayers as they go along, just like fundamentalists), very informal almost bizarre dancing, jumping up and down, speaking tougues. Their singing and dancing is not accapella, but uses "praise bands" just like fundamentalist Protestants.

This said there are some Real Jews who have converted to Christianity, but the too (Jews for Jesus) are fundamentalist Protestants.

[boppysbud]

Yes BMV, the "Messianic Jews" are a recent invention, the 1970s to be exact.

The have become very popular recently however along with other trends in fundamentalist pop/fad theology like the "rapture", "non-denominational" denominations

I imagine like other pop fads they too will fade away, only to be represented by a small remnant when the next pop fad theology comes around.

[Jermosh]

Originally Posted by bwv 1080

Ok. but aren't Messianic Jews a recent invention? Certainly the early Church had a heavily Jewish makeup, but I doubt they were at all like the modern dispensationalist evangelicals who comprise this movement today.

Sorry I was not refering to the denomination, just the term. But for some reason I always capitalize anything that has to do with or defining God, like His will, the Messiah.

And no they were nothin like the current "denomination", they were much like the modern Church of today, their mass is almost idetical. Just remove the gospel and NT readings, add some gospel like Homilies, and some more OT scripture and differant hymns and some minor cultural differances. But the breaking of the Bread has not changed at all, except for the words, names, and gestures of course.

You should try to go to a jewish worship service if you ever get a chance, it almost like home, more home then a protostent service is.