A Cure for all STD's

[vern humphrey]

Originally Posted by goofyjim

In Africa it is primarily, and has been primarily a heterosexual disease. You missed the point of the post that it is not a gay disease only and some divine punishment.

No one has shown the female-to-male transmission rate in Africa is greater than in the US. Female-to-male transmission of AIDS in sexual relations is rather rare. Male-to-male and male-to-female transmission is the norm.

[Carol Coombe]

Originally Posted by vern humphrey

There is a recently-closed thread on AIDS that I might sum up:

Expert on AIDS who blames the Catholic Church for not supporting condoms: "Millions of people are dying because of the Church's position."

Catholic: "The Church's position is that abstinence is the way to prevent AIDS. That works. Promoting condom use merely encourages the behavior that spreads AIDS."

EOAWBLTCCFNSC: "Abstinence only works if people are perfect, and they aren't."

Catholic: "But comdoms have a failure rate. If you engage in dangerous sex frequently enough -- even with condoms -- you will ultimately get AIDS."

EOAWBLTCCFNSC: "I never said condoms were perfect."

Catholic: "Let's look at a real world example, Botswana. It's a small, fairly affluent nation with a reasonably homogenious law-abiding population. If condoms would work anywhere, they would work there. The UN tried it and today nearly half of all Batswana have AIDS."

EOAWBLTCCFNSC: "That's because they often don't use condoms!"

Catholic: "Correct. When people are encouraged to continue this kind of behavior, they often omit the safety precautions in the passion of the moment. They also often mix drugs and alcohol and sex."

EOAWBLTCCFNSC: "Well, do you expect people to be perfect?"

Catholic: "Let me see here. Abstinence will only work if people are perfect, so it's an unacceptable strategy, right?.

"Condoms, on the other hand will work only if they are perfect and only if people are perfect.

"So that's the straegy to pursue?"

EOAWBLTCCFNSC: "You're twisting everything! I don't want to talk to you any more!"

That is a complete and utter falsification of the discussion on one of the hottest threads on this Forum in recent weeks - which you helped to close down with this kind of blatantly crude style of reformulating the observations, opinions, evidence and insights of others who were genuinely searching for answers.

If you again misrepresent my professional observations, I will report you immediately.

If others are interested in the ins and outs of HIV infection, prevalence and global spread, and ways in which the pandemic can be challenged, by Catholics and others, please do go to thread, HIV, the wretched of the earth, and CC. We had over 400 postings in less than two days - it's a hot topic.

The influence of posters like this one meant that we were not able to discuss aspects of the Principle of Double Effect, responsibility as Christians for understanding and battling the pandemic - which will affect us all, even if we are not infected ourselves - and what should be taught to Catholic young people about HIV and other STIs. Nothing is being done in our Catholic Church in South Africa, even though it has one of the highest rates of infection in the world.

Please do not be misled down a sidebar, or a detour, or a deadend by posters who have another agenda.

[goofyjim]

Originally Posted by vern humphrey

No one has shown the female-to-male transmission rate in Africa is greater than in the US. Female-to-male transmission of AIDS in sexual relations is rather rare. Male-to-male and male-to-female transmission is the norm.

That may be correct. But you make the assumption it started as a STD. It probably had its origins elsewhere in Africa and spread male-to-female there more quickly. This is why I call it a heterosexual disease there.

[Carol Coombe]

Originally Posted by jmcrae

Of course the real reason they want condoms in Africa is to introduce a culture of contraception, in order to further the UN agenda to purify the human race of all inferior types, and to eliminate poverty by eliminating the poor, instead of eliminating the root causes of poverty. AIDS is just an opportunity that they are exploiting for their ultimate goal.

This is not worthy of you! Where on earth did you dig up this garbage, and why would one ever want to spread this racist, anti-humanitarian smut?

[Carol Coombe]

Originally Posted by Cari

Thank you so much for posting this! I recently had an arguement with my husband about the Church's refusal to capitulate on condoms in Africa. My husband (also a Catholic) felt that it was irresponsible for the Church to refuse to try any solution that might work (read:condoms). Next time we talk about it, I'll bring up your argument. It might help him understand why the Church doesn't HAVE to "bend".

You would do well also to read the thread just closed: HIV, the wretched of the earth, and the CC's teachings. There are a number of points of view there, and some professional insights that might help.

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by goofyjim

That may be correct. But you make the assumption it started as a STD. It probably had its origins elsewhere in Africa and spread male-to-female there more quickly. This is why I call it a heterosexual disease there.

The disease was first reported in Africa in the 1940s, but it died out right away and was not spread from there, since most of the men who acquired it were not having sex with anyone except each other.

It did not begin to spread until the early 1980s, and the locus of the original spread was New York City, with a group of homosexual men who shared a bath house together. No one knows how it got there to begin with, though.

There is also the myth of Patient Zero - there was never such a person. This was a mistake based on Patient O (Oh, not zero, standing for his last name) who was very promiscuous - he spread the disease to California, but it was already known before he got it and before he began to spread it. Nobody knows how he got it, but he was the first person to spread it to the heterosexual population, since he was bisexual. Up until that time, it was thought that only men could get the disease.

It was not until Ryan White got the disease from a blood transfusion that anyone realized it could be spread through the blood supply.

[goofyjim]

Originally Posted by jmcrae

The disease was first reported in Africa in the 1940s, but it died out right away and was not spread from there, since most of the men who acquired it were not having sex with anyone except each other.

It did not begin to spread until the early 1980s, and the locus of the original spread was New York City, with a group of homosexual men who shared a bath house together. No one knows how it got there to begin with, though.

There is also the myth of Patient Zero - there was never such a person. This was a mistake based on Patient O (Oh, not zero, standing for his last name) who was very promiscuous - he spread the disease to California, but it was already known before he got it and before he began to spread it. Nobody knows how he got it, but he was the first person to spread it to the heterosexual population, since he was bisexual. Up until that time, it was thought that only men could get the disease.

It was not until Ryan White got the disease from a blood transfusion that anyone realized it could be spread through the blood supply.

So now you're contending that it is some divine punishment? Well think again the Church would strongly reprimand you on that one my friend.

[mark a]

Originally Posted by heisenburg

Monogamy!

Per the latest studies on this new medical treatment, being completely committed to only one partner, and waiting till marriage acts as 100% promise against contracting STD's. If approved by the FDA, the ACLU and the MPAA, it will become the standard recommendation by all doctors in the hopes of beating this tragedy

It might work!

Now if we can just keep people from finding out that monogamy is and always has been taught by the Catholic Church. . . . .

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by Carol Coombe

This is not worthy of you! Where on earth did you dig up this garbage, and why would one ever want to spread this racist, anti-humanitarian smut?

Where do you think contraception comes from? Do you even know who the inventor of it is? Most people are totally unaware that it is Margaret Sanger, who was the chief propagandist of the German National Socialist Party (aka the Nazis) during the 1930s and 40s. She escaped to America before the end of the war and became the founder of Planned Parenthood.

The United Nations has taken on the Planned Parenthood agenda - they even have representatives from Planned Parenthood on their advisory councils.

[jmcrae]

Originally Posted by goofyjim

So now you're contending that it is some divine punishment? Well think again the Church would strongly reprimand you on that one my friend.

Where did I say that? You are putting words in my mouth.

[goofyjim]

Originally Posted by jmcrae

The disease was first reported in Africa in the 1940s, but it died out right away and was not spread from there, since most of the men who acquired it were not having sex with anyone except each other.

It did not begin to spread until the early 1980s, and the locus of the original spread was New York City, with a group of homosexual men who shared a bath house together. No one knows how it got there to begin with, though.

There is also the myth of Patient Zero - there was never such a person. This was a mistake based on Patient O (Oh, not zero, standing for his last name) who was very promiscuous - he spread the disease to California, but it was already known before he got it and before he began to spread it. Nobody knows how he got it, but he was the first person to spread it to the heterosexual population, since he was bisexual. Up until that time, it was thought that only men could get the disease.

It was not until Ryan White got the disease from a blood transfusion that anyone realized it could be spread through the blood supply.

The disease is still most rampant in Africa. How can anyone believe it died out there back in the 40s.

[Carol Coombe]

Originally Posted by vern humphrey

I have been told, by AIDS activists that Universal Precautions prevent health care professionals from getting AIDS (which justifies the activists' opposition to AIDS testing) and few children get it from their parents.Be that as it may, the primary method of AIDS transmission is via illicit sex -- usually homosexual acts, or women having sex with promiscuous bi-sexual men. Second to that is intravenous drug users with infected needles.If we can solve these two problems, we can prevent most AIDS.The solution to both is for those in the at-risk groups to change their behavior.

I am not sure if you want to pass on false information, or if you are simply making it up. Universal Precautions are necessary to help prevent transmission of the virus to health workers, social workers, teachers and other professionals who are working with those who are or may be HIV+.

Similarly, rugby, hockey, football and soccer matches are monitored (blood pool) to make sure that players and support staff know about Universal Precautions. They are not 100 per cent foolproof, but they ensure that transmission by blood contact is limited.

I have never, in 15 years of working professionally around the world on HIV, heard any so-called activist deny the necessity of testing for HIV. Testing is the only way we can know the extent of the disaster we are facing, as individuals, communities, nations, and globally.

It is so bad that while previously no testing would be done unless accompanied by counselling, testing is done now without counselling if necessary. We have just completed a national HIV test for all teachers (400,000) in South Africa. Your information is false.

Behaviour change is important. But there are many different ways of getting HIV that do not involve illicit sex, as you call it, or that do not involve sex at all:

• newborns pick it up from their mothers as they move through the birth canal, or from the mother's milk
• health care and social workers pick it up from patients and clients
• medics and paramedics pick it up from patients
• heterosexual males and females pick it up during heterosexual intercourse, especially when there is already a sexually transmitted infection present (as there is in poor communities)
• Chinese farmers pick it up when they sell their blood for money to buy fertiliser, when dirty equipment is used to take the bloods (15 m in one Chinese province, Yenan)
• African boys of initiation age pick it up when the same knife is used to circumcise a number of young men: if one is HIV+, then others will be at risk of infection
• Burmese, Thai, Cambodian, Vietnamese girls pick it up when they are sold into prostitution abroad by their parents - so they can spend about 10 years in the trade to make money to build a house and buy a motorbike and TV.

Asian anti-HIV programmes have focused on transmission by drug abusers (dirty needles), prostitutes (many clients), and homosexuals (risky unprotected sex). For some years, they were able to keep infection levels down in those groups. However, drug abusers, prostitutes and bisexuals all have sexual partners in the general population, and so the infection is now spreading rapidly there. Ordinary people like you and me.

Behaviour change will take decades: we are already 30 years into the pandemic. In the interim, we need humanitarian support to help people keep safe and healthy: clean water and sanitation, anti-retroviral drugs, enough of the right kind of food. We also need to help break down some of the obstacles that tradition places in the way of changing behaviour. People leave old customs behind only with difficulty.

This is clearly more than a two-bite issues: HIV is linked with poverty, lack of education, lack of food and clean water, homelessness, unemployment, traditional customs and behaviours, urban degradation and rural poverty, wars and civil commotion. It requires addressing on a number of fronts, and the Catholic Church - as any Christian community - has a responsibility which it is taking up, to challenge all the many factors that are linked to HIV infection and prevalence.

[goofyjim]

Originally Posted by jmcrae

Where did I say that? You are putting words in my mouth.

Because it sounds like a bit of misinformation. Can you cite a source for your information? And if it died out quickly in the 40s how is it so rampant among heterosexuals in Africa today?

[vern humphrey]

Originally Posted by Carol Coombe

That is a complete and utter falsification of the discussion on one of the hottest threads on this Forum in recent weeks - which you helped to close down with this kind of blatantly crude style of reformulating the observations, opinions, evidence and insights of others who were genuinely searching for answers.

And you present this post as an example of calm, rational debating style, do you?

Originally Posted by Carol Coombe

If you again misrepresent my professional observations, I will report you immediately.

Go right ahead - -but be sure you actually quote where I "misrepresented your professional observations."

Originally Posted by Carol Coombe

If others are interested in the ins and outs of HIV infection, prevalence and global spread, and ways in which the pandemic can be challenged, by Catholics and others, please do go to thread, HIV, the wretched of the earth, and CC. We had over 400 postings in less than two days - it's a hot topic.

The influence of posters like this one meant that we were not able to discuss aspects of the Principle of Double Effect, responsibility as Christians for understanding and battling the pandemic - which will affect us all, even if we are not infected ourselves - and what should be taught to Catholic young people about HIV and other STIs. Nothing is being done in our Catholic Church in South Africa, even though it has one of the highest rates of infection in the world.

Actually, it was the insistence on the effectiveness of condoms -- despite real world experience -- that negated any possibility of Double Effect. If it don't work, it can't be Double Effect.

Originally Posted by Carol Coombe

Please do not be misled down a sidebar, or a detour, or a deadend by posters who have another agenda.

My sentiments, exactly -- look at what happens when the "condom solution" is applied in nations like Botswana.

[vern humphrey]

Originally Posted by Carol Coombe

Behaviour change is important. But there are many different ways of getting HIV that do not involve illicit sex, as you call it, or that do not involve sex at all:

• newborns pick it up from their mothers as they move through the birth canal, or from the mother's milk
• health care and social workers pick it up from patients and clients
• medics and paramedics pick it up from patients
• heterosexual males and females pick it up during heterosexual intercourse, especially when there is already a sexually transmitted infection present (as there is in poor communities)
• Chinese farmers pick it up when they sell their blood for money to buy fertiliser, when dirty equipment is used to take the bloods (15 m in one Chinese province, Yenan)
• African boys of initiation age pick it up when the same knife is used to circumcise a number of young men: if one is HIV+, then others will be at risk of infection
• Burmese, Thai, Cambodian, Vietnamese girls pick it up when they are sold into prostitution abroad by their parents - so they can spend about 10 years in the trade to make money to build a house and buy a motorbike and TV.

Asian anti-HIV programmes have focused on transmission by drug abusers (dirty needles), prostitutes (many clients), and homosexuals (risky unprotected sex). For some years, they were able to keep infection levels down in those groups. However, drug abusers, prostitutes and bisexuals all have sexual partners in the general population, and so the infection is now spreading rapidly there. Ordinary people like you and me.

Behaviour change will take decades: we are already 30 years into the pandemic. In the interim, we need humanitarian support to help people keep safe and healthy: clean water and sanitation, anti-retroviral drugs, enough of the right kind of food. We also need to help break down some of the obstacles that tradition places in the way of changing behaviour. People leave old customs behind only with difficulty.

This is clearly more than a two-bite issues: HIV is linked with poverty, lack of education, lack of food and clean water, homelessness, unemployment, traditional customs and behaviours, urban degradation and rural poverty, wars and civil commotion. It requires addressing on a number of fronts, and the Catholic Church - as any Christian community - has a responsibility which it is taking up, to challenge all the many factors that are linked to HIV infection and prevalence.

Nevertheless, the primary means of transmission is through sexual congress. And that's why the Politically Correct approach is to promote "safe sex" -- which as your own post shows, isn't really safe.

I stand by my original statement -- those who tout condoms as the answer are encouraging the behavior that spreads the disease.