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  #1  
Old May 31, '07, 4:09 pm
emily47017 emily47017 is offline
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Question Did Judas take communion?

maybe this is a stupid question. (it is a question though, not a challenge... please don't hurt me...)

did judas participate in the last supper? i didn't see anywhere in the first three gospels that he was absent during the breaking of the bread, and in john there wasn't any supper, just jesus giving judas the bread to fulfill isaiah's prophesy (something like: he who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me).

???

was the last supper the same as holy communion? if jesus knew that judas was in a state of sin, why did he get to partake? how does this relate to paul's statement about taking communion unworthily?

what does the church say?
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  #2  
Old May 31, '07, 8:05 pm
NoelFitz NoelFitz is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

Q: Did Judas take communion?
A: YES.

He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the bowl with me. For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.” While they were eating, he took a loaf of bread, and after blessing it he broke it, gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, and after giving thanks he gave it to them, and all of them drank from it. He said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many (Mk 14:20-24, NRSV).

See also Mt 20: 20-30, Lk 22:17-23 and Jn 13:22-27.

There is not much use asking why did Jesus do what he did. God is not big into giving explanations,

God bless,

NowlFitz.
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  #3  
Old Jun 1, '07, 9:50 am
Epistemes Epistemes is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

As far as I can tell, it's not definitive whether Judas did or did not take communion. And as far as I can tell, the Church doesn't say a whole lot on the subject because nothing inhibits any person, much less Judas, from taking communion unworthily. If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?

Christ didn't withhold the Eucharist from Judas. The reason why is simple: Christ loved all his disciples, even Judas - and I'm sure Christ prayed for Judas' conversion many times! Allowing Judas to partake of communion was the final gift Christ could give Judas...

...and, in a way, it was a gift that deeply affected Judas, especially when Christ was crucified. Judas, understanding the connection between the meal shared in the Upper Room and what was happening to Christ, felt an utter despair for what he had done. Unlike ourselves, who when we commit sacrelige, Judas did not hope in the Lord and seek Christ with a contrite heart, but he continued to trust in himself.

Hope this sheds some more light on your question. It's definitely helped me understand the issue more by thinking about it.
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  #4  
Old Jun 1, '07, 1:28 pm
emily47017 emily47017 is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

thanks, folks -- that does help a lot!
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  #5  
Old Jun 1, '07, 3:26 pm
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
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  #6  
Old Jun 1, '07, 10:45 pm
NoelFitz NoelFitz is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

Q: If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?
A: No.
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  #7  
Old Jun 2, '07, 7:08 am
Epistemes Epistemes is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoelFitz View Post
Q: If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?
A: No.
Thanks for the elaboration.
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  #8  
Old Jun 2, '07, 7:11 am
pprimeau1976 pprimeau1976 is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

So when Judas dipped his bread in the bowl, was the bowl filled with wine? Was Judas practicing intinction?
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  #9  
Old Jun 2, '07, 8:21 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

How can Satan and Jesus be within the same person?
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  #10  
Old Jun 2, '07, 4:28 pm
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Benadam Benadam is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

Satan's sin is unforgiveable because Satan possessed the full revelation of God and rejected Him in spite of it. What more could God do? Jesus warned the Pharisees that they were in danger of this sin as well. How much more would Judas be in danger of this sin as one of the twelve? We know we bring our own condemnation when we receive unworthily.
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  #11  
Old Jun 2, '07, 6:39 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pprimeau1976 View Post
So when Judas dipped his bread in the bowl, was the bowl filled with wine? Was Judas practicing intinction?
I don't have my copy of the Seder meal at hand at the moment. However, I think there is a point at which the leader dips a bit of bread in the sauce and gives it to a favored guest, maybe more than once. This was not the point at which Jesus consecrated the bread.

As I recall this is somewhat before the third cup of wine, which appears to be the one that Jesus consecrated. If so then Judas did not receive Communion because he left at that earlier point.
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  #12  
Old Apr 14, '11, 5:56 pm
Maybeasister Maybeasister is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

In school we're studying the last supper. My teacher said that one of the gospels said something along the lines of:' "I give this bread to the one who shall betray me" And Jesus gave the bread to Judas.' So, yeah, he did participate.
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  #13  
Old Apr 14, '11, 8:14 pm
BerhaneSelassie BerhaneSelassie is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

St Ephraim the Syrian, doctor of the Church, on this matter said definitively NO, Christ did not give Judas the Eucharist. Rather, the LORD de-consecrated the Host by dipping it in water. I am not familiar enough with what constitutes changing the "matter" for the Sacrament, though I have heard of priests dissolving Hosts that people desecrated with water.
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  #14  
Old Apr 15, '11, 12:34 am
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

In his recent New York Times best seller book, Jesus of Nazareth Vol 2, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI discusses this very subject and indeed he confirms that Judas DID take and eat the consecrated bread.

The Pope's sad commentary on this incident is that it seems that so many today do exactly the same thing.
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  #15  
Old Apr 15, '11, 1:00 am
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Earnest Bunbury Earnest Bunbury is offline
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Default Re: Did Judas take communion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerhaneSelassie View Post
St Ephraim the Syrian, doctor of the Church, on this matter said definitively NO, Christ did not give Judas the Eucharist. Rather, the LORD de-consecrated the Host by dipping it in water. I am not familiar enough with what constitutes changing the "matter" for the Sacrament, though I have heard of priests dissolving Hosts that people desecrated with water.
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Q:“Can the body of Christ turn back into bread again? I have come to believe that a child of the devil (1 Jn 3:8,10) can cause reverse transubstantiation to occur by going up to receive the body of Christ.”

A: The theological ramifications of your suggestion are mind-boggling. The only reason that the apostles and their successors could change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is because Jesus explicitly told them to and thereby gave them the power to do it. He did not give them or anyone the power to change his body and blood back into bread and wine. That power originates in him—not in them. He alone has control of the Eucharistic Presence. This is Catholic dogma and Catholics are obliged to hold to it.

First John 3:8 refers to someone who is in mortal sin. When such a person receives the Eucharist, the Eucharist is greatly dishonored and the person is guilty of sacrilege (see also 1 Cor 11:27-29). His sin does not have the power to cause “reverse transubstantiation.” There is no power on earth that can reverse what God has confected in the sacrament.

Q:“Since Judas's betrayal of Jesus likely was a grave sin, why did Jesus give him Communion at the Last Supper? Or had Judas left the table by that point?”

A:If Judas did receive Communion—as Scripture appears to indicate (Lk 22:19-23)—then there may be any number of reasons why Christ allowed it even though he had already been plotting Christ’s betrayal (Lk 22:3-4). Two possibilities include: Christ may have hoped that the grace of Communion ultimately could save Judas’s soul. Judas did indeed feel remorse for what he did (Mt 27:3-4), although he chose the wrong means to demonstrate that remorse (Mt 27:5). Or perhaps Christ respected Judas’s free will, just as he respects our free will, and so did not deny Judas Communion even though he apparently did not have faith that it was Christ’s body and blood (Jn 6:66-71).
—Michelle Arnold
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