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  #1  
Old Jun 4, '07, 1:22 am
saretse saretse is offline
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Lightbulb Holy Trinity Explained

HOLY TRINITY EXPLAINED

The cornerstone of our Roman Catholic Faith is the ‘mystery of the Holy Trinity’. The Holy Trinity was taught to us down the ages as a mystery. Hence, we proclaim that GOD is a mystery. So, we must not be surprised that at the end of our days, GOD will also look down at us as a mystery.

The English dictionary defines a mystery as something unexplained or a secret. If it is ‘something unexplainable’ or if it is a ‘secret’ then the ‘mystery of the Holy Trinity’ cannot be found in the Holy Bible because the Sacred Scriptures do not contain mysteries or secrets. It contains revelations about GOD.

The English dictionary defines revelation as the disclosure of something secret. Therefore, revelation is the antonym of secret. It is the opposite of mystery. Now, applying the dictionary definition of mystery and revelation, the ‘mystery of the Holy Trinity’ is found, not in Sacred Scriptures, but in the dogma and encyclicals of the Roman Catholic Church. The ‘revelation of the Holy Trinity’ is found not in the encyclicals and dogma of the Roman Catholic Church. Rather, it is found exclusively in the Holy Bible.

It is a fact that the Rabbi began His teaching ministry at the wedding feast at Cana. It was in that merry-making activity that the Son of Man revealed the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. When the Son of Man addressed the virgin from Nazareth whose flesh He assumed, ‘Woman’ He confirmed and taught His divinity, that is, He introduced Himself as GOD – THE ONE AND INDIVISIBLE HOLY TRINITY and not as man.

All of us, Christians, are cognizant of the truth that OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST visited this world in fulfillment of the Scriptures. Therefore, everything the Son of Man uttered and performed while He mingled with human beings during that epoch of epochs had Scriptural basis.

The Biblical basis of the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity is unerringly incorporated in the word ‘woman’ that the Son of Man addressed the virgin from Nazareth with at the beginning of His teaching ministry. It came out directly from the mouth of Him who is GOD. Ergo, it is a revelation and a teaching.

The Scriptural basis of the revelation and not mystery follows: As the daughter of the Father (Luke 1:28), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Father. As the spouse of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Holy Spirit. As the mother of the Son (Luke 1:31), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Son. The virgin from Nazareth, clearly then, is ‘woman’ to all the three divine Persons who is GOD. She is aptly the ‘blessed among women’ (Luke 1:42). The Blessed Virgin Mary is the ‘woman’ of GOD. The Son of Man never called her ‘mother’, not even once while He interacted with humans, because it will not be in keeping with His divinity or with the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. The virgin from Nazareth is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and she, obviously, is not the mother of the Father.

We failed to realize and appreciate that the Holy and Undivided Trinity is implied in the call ‘woman’ He addressed the Blessed Virgin Mary with at the festivity in Cana because it was taught to us as a mystery and we thought He became human just like one of us, that His thoughts were our thoughts, that His ways were our ways, and that His divine flesh were our flesh. We failed to elevate our thinking and consider that the Son of Man and the virgin from Nazareth were speaking the language of divinity and not the language of humanity. If the Rabbi were speaking the language of humanity with the virgin from Nazareth, He would have addressed her ‘mother’ in compliance with the proper norms of human conduct enshrined in the code of civility. However, as supernatural Persons in the flesh, they were not subject to natural laws or human laws that were and are subject to them.

When OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST addressed the Blessed Virgin Mary, ‘woman’ it was the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in unison who called her ‘woman’ and the Scriptural basis of that has been properly cited. The three divine Persons cannot speak and act independently of each other. That is the supernatural order and identity of GOD. That is the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity that He manifested on this penal colony called Earth before His teaching ministry. He manifested His divinity at the river Jordan witnessed by John the Baptizer whom He allowed to administer to Him the Baptism of the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. That was the very first doctrine He taught at the beginning of His teaching ministry that almost everybody failed to comprehend.

Last edited by Ferdinand Mary; Jun 6, '07 at 7:48 pm. Reason: Expanded for readability
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  #2  
Old Jun 4, '07, 5:50 am
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

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Originally Posted by saretse View Post
HOLY TRINITY EXPLAINED

The cornerstone of our Roman Catholic Faith is the ‘mystery of the Holy Trinity’. The Holy Trinity was taught to us down the ages as a mystery. Hence, we proclaim that GOD is a mystery. So, we must not be surprised that at the end of our days, GOD will also look down at us as a mystery.
The English dictionary defines a mystery as something unexplained or a secret. If it is ‘something unexplainable’ or if it is a ‘secret’ then the ‘mystery of the Holy Trinity’ cannot be found in the Holy Bible because the Sacred Scriptures do not contain mysteries or secrets. It contains revelations about GOD. The English dictionary defines revelation as the disclosure of something secret. Therefore, revelation is the antonym of secret. It is the opposite of mystery. Now, applying the dictionary definition of mystery and revelation, the ‘mystery of the Holy Trinity’ is found, not in Sacred Scriptures, but in the dogma and encyclicals of the Roman Catholic Church. The ‘revelation of the Holy Trinity’ is found not in the encyclicals and dogma of the Roman Catholic Church. Rather, it is found exclusively in the Holy Bible.
It is a fact that the Rabbi began His teaching ministry at the wedding feast at Cana. It was in that merry-making activity that the Son of Man revealed the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. When the Son of Man addressed the virgin from Nazareth whose flesh He assumed, ‘Woman’ He confirmed and taught His divinity, that is, He introduced Himself as GOD – THE ONE AND INDIVISIBLE HOLY TRINITY and not as man.
All of us, Christians, are cognizant of the truth that OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST visited this world in fulfillment of the Scriptures. Therefore, everything the Son of Man uttered and performed while He mingled with human beings during that epoch of epochs had Scriptural basis. The Biblical basis of the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity is unerringly incorporated in the word ‘woman’ that the Son of Man addressed the virgin from Nazareth with at the beginning of His teaching ministry. It came out directly from the mouth of Him who is GOD. Ergo, it is a revelation and a teaching. The Scriptural basis of the revelation and not mystery follows: As the daughter of the Father (Luke 1:28), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Father. As the spouse of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 1:20), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Holy Spirit. As the mother of the Son (Luke 1:31), in the divine supernatural order, the virgin from Nazareth is the ‘woman’ of the Son. The virgin from Nazareth, clearly then, is ‘woman’ to all the three divine Persons who is GOD. She is aptly the ‘blessed among women’ (Luke 1:42). The Blessed Virgin Mary is the ‘woman’ of GOD. The Son of Man never called her ‘mother’, not even once while He interacted with humans, because it will not be in keeping with His divinity or with the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. The virgin from Nazareth is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and she, obviously, is not the mother of the Father.
We failed to realize and appreciate that the Holy and Undivided Trinity is implied in the call ‘woman’ He addressed the Blessed Virgin Mary with at the festivity in Cana because it was taught to us as a mystery and we thought He became human just like one of us, that His thoughts were our thoughts, that His ways were our ways, and that His divine flesh were our flesh. We failed to elevate our thinking and consider that the Son of Man and the virgin from Nazareth were speaking the language of divinity and not the language of humanity. If the Rabbi were speaking the language of humanity with the virgin from Nazareth, He would have addressed her ‘mother’ in compliance with the proper norms of human conduct enshrined in the code of civility. However, as supernatural Persons in the flesh, they were not subject to natural laws or human laws that were and are subject to them. When OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST addressed the Blessed Virgin Mary, ‘woman’ it was the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit in unison who called her ‘woman’ and the Scriptural basis of that has been properly cited. The three divine Persons cannot speak and act independently of each other. That is the supernatural order and identity of GOD. That is the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity that He manifested on this penal colony called Earth before His teaching ministry. He manifested His divinity at the river Jordan witnessed by John the Baptizer whom He allowed to administer to Him the Baptism of the Oneness and Indivisibility of the Holy Trinity. That was the very first doctrine He taught at the beginning of His teaching ministry that almost everybody failed to comprehend.
Faith and the mystery of the Holy Trinity has NOTHING to do with a dictionary. Get real!!
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  #3  
Old Jun 4, '07, 7:35 am
porthos11 porthos11 is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle View Post
Faith and the mystery of the Holy Trinity has NOTHING to do with a dictionary. Get real!!
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  #4  
Old Jun 5, '07, 5:16 am
Todd Easton Todd Easton is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

In calling the Holy Trinity a mystery, the Catholic Church does not use the popular dictionary definition of mystery that the OP uses but a more technical theological definition. According to my English dictionary (Webster's New World Dictionary of the American Language, 2nd College Edition, 1986), in theology, the word mystery means: any religious truth known to man only through divine revelation and to be accepted on faith. By this definition, the Holy Trinity is rightly called a mystery because it was not known until it was divinely revealed by Jesus Christ. Thus, the first half of the OP's discussion of mysteries and revelations, and the Holy Bible and the Catholic Church, doesn't really make much sense.

The OP's discussion of Jesus publicly addressing his mother as "Woman," would be more convincing if Jesus had not also addressed the infirm woman (Luke 13:12), the Samaritan woman (John 4:21), the woman caught in adultery (John 8:10), and Mary Magdalene (John 20:16) as "Woman." Similarly, Jesus addressed the paralyzed man (Luke 5:20) and the man seeking his inheritance (Luke 12:14) as "Man." In the same way, when he denied knowing Jesus, Peter addressed the maid as "Woman" and the two others as "Man." (Luke 22:55-58)

Taking all these verses into consideration one might easily conclude that addressing a woman as "Woman" and a man as "Man" was a common practice back then, even when addressing those within your circle of friends and family.

Nevertheless, since Jesus Christ is the last Adam, addressing Mary as "Woman" may be an indication of her status as the last Eve (Genesis 2:23) and may be an indication of her status as the mother of those who keep the commandmants and bear testimony to Jesus. (Revelations 12:1, 17)

Last edited by Todd Easton; Jun 5, '07 at 5:35 am.
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  #5  
Old Jun 5, '07, 7:26 am
TOME TOME is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Sareste,

I find that what most of what you wrote very interesting but something you wrote sticks in my mind so much that I have to comment on it.

What bothers me is your writing that our Blessed Mother is the "Women of God" etc. Perhaps I am missing the point you were trying to make but I have to point out that the Church, i.e. the Catholic Church clearly teaches that Mary is the "Mother of God".

This understanding is deeply rooted in the Church's trinitarian theology and is not just a statement from her Mariology. Christ Jesus is the Incarnate Word. His Divine and Human natures are so interwoven that they cannot be separated. This is not to say that Jesus had only one nature, but again that His two natures are inseperatable - the person of Jesus cannot exist except with these two natures. And being so intrinsically united, Mary could not have given birth just to the human Jesus therefore the Church came to realize that Mary truely is "The Mother of God" and since God is triune it would be wrong to try to seperate the trinity and say she is only the mother of the Second Person of the trinity. She is the Mother of God.
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  #6  
Old Jun 5, '07, 8:07 am
tm30 tm30 is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

I pretty much stopped reading at "Holy Trinity Explained".

We will never fully grasp the Trinity. Not even in heaven will we fully understand it. To proclaim what we are not entitled to know is sinful because, in this case, the only outcome is error. We may have an "idea" of the relationship. We may be able to reproduce a vague similitude. We may draw closer to understanding. But explain it? Impossible. There aren't words, images or definitions that we can possibly apply that "explains" the Holy Trinity.
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  #7  
Old Jun 6, '07, 1:20 pm
Eric Hyom Eric Hyom is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Greetings and peace be with you tm30;

Maybe the greatest commandments can describe how Jesus is one with the Father.


The Father loves all that he is with all his heart, mind soul and strength.
The Father loves Jesus as he loves himself?
Jesus loves the Father as he loves himself?

Can God love Jesus more than he loves himself?

Can it possibly be that if we are created in the greatest image of God, then we are given the greatest commandments for this purpose.

In the spirit of searching

Eric
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  #8  
Old Jun 7, '07, 1:29 am
saretse saretse is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Tome,

Thanks for your theological comment and open-mindedness but allow me to refresh your astute mind and undoubtedly loving heart to the yellowed pages of the Book of Genesis for your contemplation.If you reflect and contemplate the Book of Genesis prayerfully and not treat it as a fairy tale, you will readily understand that GOD did not create a mother. He created a supernatural woman from the rib of a supernatural person He named Man. Removing a rib from a natural man will not transform it to a natural woman. It becomes a iifeless object outside of the living body.The supernatural woman later exchanged the command or word of GOD for the enticement or indecent proposal of the serpent that was a creature devoid of the image and likeness of Him who is GOD. In His anger, GOD transformed, in an instant, the supernatural woman to a natural woman and imposed upon her a curse – the curse of motherhood that follows, verbatim: “I will increase your suffering in childbearing, and you will give birth to your children in pain.” (Genesis 3:16) Ergo, it is very clear from the Holy Bible that motherhood is not a blessing. It was a curse and continues to be so. It was for this reason then that OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST as the Holy and Undivided Trinity did not address the virgin from Nazareth ‘mother’. It would be a horrendous mistake. The Blessed Virgin Mary, upon her willful and deliberate compliance, not defiance, to the word of GOD was, in an instant, transformed from an obscure natural virgin to a divine supernatural woman by the omnipotent power of the Holy and Undivided Trinity who is GOD. The curse of motherhood and naturalness was lifted upon her person. She did not die a natural death. She was assumed into Heaven because she did not know how to get there by herself because she was transformed here and not in Heaven by the omnipotent transforming power of the word of God from a natural mortal woman to a supernatural immortal woman. The tangible evdence of this is her incessant apparitions through time. She ransomed the folly of Eve who exchanged eternal life for natural death. Eve was a symbol of spiteful defiance with the word of GOD while the Blessed Virgin Mary was a symbol of humble compliance with the word of GOD. Remember always, 'Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away' That is how precious the word of GOD is to Himself.

Asta la vista, my friend and GOD bless you always.

In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
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  #9  
Old Jun 7, '07, 8:30 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity: An Outline Study
By Robert M. Bowman, Jr. http://www.apologetics.com
http://www.spotlightministries.org.u...thetrinity.htm

Since, mystery is used by catholics in a "catholic sense" you must get your defintion from a catholic source, after all it is their language, not English that is being spoken here,

Quote:
NOTION OF MYSTERY IN SCRIPTURE AND IN THEOLOGY
The Old-Testament versions use the word mysterion as an equivalent for the Hebrew sôd, "secret" (Proverbs 20:19; Judith 2:2; Sirach 22:27; 2 Maccabees 13:21). In the New Testament the word mystery is applied ordinarily to the sublime revelation of the Gospel (Matthew 13:11; Colossians 2:2; 1 Timothy 3:9; 1 Corinthians 15:51), and to the Incarnation and life of the Saviour and His manifestation by the preaching of the Apostles (Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:4; 6:19; Colossians 1:26; 4:3).

In conformity with the usage of the inspired writers of the New Testament, theologians give the name mystery to revealed truths that surpass the powers of natural reason. Mystery, therefore, in its strict theological sense is not synonymous with the incomprehensible, since all that we know is incomprehensible, i.e., not adequately comprehensible as to its inner being; nor with the unknowable, since many things merely natural are accidentally unknowable, on account of their inaccessibility, e.g., things that are future, remote, or hidden. In its strict sense a mystery is a supernatural truth, one that of its very nature lies above the finite intelligence.

Theologians distinguish two classes of supernatural mysteries: the absolute (or theological) and the relative. An absolute mystery is a truth whose existence or possibility could not be discovered by a creature, and whose essence (inner substantial being) can be expressed by the finite mind only in terms of analogy, e.g., the Trinity. A relative mystery is a truth whose innermost nature alone (e.g., many of the Divine attributes), or whose existence alone (e.g., the positive ceremonial precepts of the Old Law), exceeds the natural knowing power of the creature.

CATHOLIC DOCTRINE

The existence of theological mysteries is a doctrine of Catholic faith defined by the Vatican Council, which declares: "If any one say that in Divine Revelation there are contained no mysteries properly so called (vera et proprie dicta mysteria), but that through reason rightly developed (per rationem rite excultam) all the dogmas of faith can be understood and demonstrated from natural principles: let him be anathema" (Sess. III, Canons, 4. De fide et Ratione, 1). This teaching is clearly explained in Scripture. The principal proof text, which was cited in part by the Vatican Council, is I Cor., ii. Shorter passages are especially Eph., iii, 4-9; Col., i, 26-27; Matt., xi, 25-27; John i 17-18. These texts speak of a mystery of God, which only infinite wisdom can understand, namely, the designs of Divine Providence and the inner life of the Godhead (see also Wisdom 9:16-17; Romans 11:33-36). Tradition abounds with testimonies that support this teaching. In the Brief "Gravissimas Inter" (Denzinger, "Enchiridion", ed. Bannwart, nn. 1666-74), Pius IX defends the doctrine of supernatural mystery by many citations from the works of the Fathers. Numerous other patristic texts that bear on the same question are quoted and explained in Kleutgen's "Die Theologie der Vorzeit", II, 75 sq.; V, 220 sq.; and in Schäzler's "Neue Untersuchungen über das Dogma von der Gnade" (Mainz, 1867), 466 sq. The manifold excellence of Christian revelation offers many theological arguments for the existence of supernatural mysteries (cf. Scheeben, "Dogmatik", I, 24).

REASON AND SUPERNATURAL MYSTERY
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10662a.htm
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  #10  
Old Jun 8, '07, 4:35 am
Eric Hyom Eric Hyom is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Greetings and peace be with you all

Can the greatest commandments have anything to do with Christ being one with the Father?

Christ loves the Father as he loves himself.
The Father loves Christ as he loves himself.

Two perfect beings as one.

Can Christ love the Father more than he loves himself?

In the spirit of searching

Eric
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  #11  
Old Jun 8, '07, 6:29 am
Smber2c Smber2c is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

to Saretse, I was watching TV the first time I read the post, it's complexity went right out the other ear. So, I've muted it and looked down. I still struggle to see if there' a question. I guess there isn't after all this thread's title is about explinations not about questions.

Still, I struggle to see what you've explained. Was all that typing to say: Jesus would usually call Mary mom, but at since He said woman, that shows He was speaking for the whole trinity?

It seems like you were saying more, but I missed it.

Also, a priest was once leading a group I was in on a meditation on the Trinityt. He said, 'Okay I want everyone to think abou the Trinity. Think about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Picture them...okay now realize that your image and your thoughts on their nature can't possibly be correct. Don't try thinking about God without picturing anything because you can't, but realize your mental picture will also always be incorrect while here on Earth.
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  #12  
Old Jun 9, '07, 10:35 pm
paarsurrey paarsurrey is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by saretse View Post
HOLY TRINITY EXPLAINED.
Hi
It is always said that Trinity is a Mystery that could not be explained, so why is there an attempt to explain it?
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
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Old Jun 9, '07, 10:37 pm
Hellisreal Hellisreal is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by paarsurrey View Post
Hi
It is always said that Trinity is a Mystery that could not be explained, so why is there an attempt to explain it?
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
There are mysteries in your faith as well. Yet, you continue to attempt to explain them.

Peace
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  #14  
Old Jun 9, '07, 10:49 pm
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by paarsurrey View Post
Hi
It is always said that Trinity is a Mystery that could not be explained, so why is there an attempt to explain it?
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
The problem with your "book" is that it contains lies. An example of a lie is that in the Koran the divinity of Jesus is denied!
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  #15  
Old Feb 26, '14, 2:41 pm
Cajetan13 Cajetan13 is offline
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Default Re: Holy Trinity Explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by paarsurrey View Post
Hi
It is always said that Trinity is a Mystery that could not be explained, so why is there an attempt to explain it?
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.
"If reason illumined by faith inquires in an earnest, pious and sober manner, it attains by God’s grace a certain understanding of the mysteries…” Vatican I (Dei Filius, Ch IV)
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