Karl Keating's E-Letter of June 12, 2007 - Page 3

**Karl Keating** · #31 Jun 12, '07, 8:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by justbeinfrank

This part of Mr. Keating's letter was rather jarring. I think he inappropriately trivializes our faith in his parenthetical note. If there were any Protestants reading, they could have been scandalized.

Furthermore, why can't you still offer up your continuing avoidance of television as penance here and now? Are we to believe that you only get one temporal chance to offer a sacrifice as penance to the God who is outside time?

Please tell me that I'm totally missing something here. I'm a little disturbed that Mr. Keating would talk this way.

1. Apparently I give Protestants more credit than you do. The ones I know have a sense of humor.

2. My "continuing avoidance of television" can't be offered up as penance because I've been doing it so long that real penance is watching television, not avoiding it.

**Karl Keating** · #32 Jun 12, '07, 8:34 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faber

Hi Karl,

I don't believe you really judge folks by what they purchase in the grocery store checkout lines.

Actually, yes I do, on the principle that no one who reads real books and who appreciates real writing will lower himself to read the tabloids.

I have to admit that perhaps your experience has been different from mine, but I've never seen anyone with the "National Enquirer" in one hand and Plato's "Republic" in the other. Until I do, I feel free to draw what I think are fair inferences.

**Karl Keating** · #33 Jun 12, '07, 8:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebedude

The show was called "To Tell the Truth" and the host was Durwood Kirby. The famous New York Socialite, Kitty Carlisle, also was a fixture on the panel.

Kitty Carlisle! Dorothy Kilgallen! Bennet Cerf! Anne Francis! Ah, those were the days of real game shows. I don't remember Orson Bean being among that group, but I will defer to your recollection.

By the way, Bennet Cerf wrote an interesting autobiography in which he unashamedly said that what he sought in life was fame, even if he came by it chiefly from rubbing shoulders with those who deserved to have it. His self-effacing candor largely cancelled out this failure of character, I think.

baltobetsy · #34 Jun 12, '07, 9:17 pm

Leave the evangelization of "such people" to those who do not have utter contempt for them.

NoelFitz · #35 Jun 12, '07, 9:21 pm

I had thought Paris Hilton was a hotel.

Reading Karl Keating's e-letter I thought of Luke 18:11:

God, I thank you that I am not like other people.

I believe Ms Hilton has now found God.

Brian_C · #36 Jun 12, '07, 9:41 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Keating

Kitty Carlisle! Dorothy Kilgallen! Bennet Cerf! Anne Francis! Ah, those were the days of real game shows. I don't remember Orson Bean being among that group, but I will defer to your recollection.

According to wikipedia, Bean is the last surviving To Tell the Truth panelist. He did appear in other gameshows, though.

1stevek · #37 Jun 12, '07, 10:09 pm

I get the impression that there is a (possibly self-willed) great divide between those who love God (or even at least try) and those who are complete victims of very successful "assaults on our culture by Satan" (very well stated, CyberSaint). "Obviously!" you may proclaim, but are the faithful supposed to distance themselves from those who are "dis-believing dogs", or are they to simply pray for these victims, or are they to pray and use their talents (or even basic abilities) to attempt to help? (This is a question hoping for answers)
My brother, married 10yrs, two little girls, thinks he loves another woman. For at least 8 months his family has suffered greatly. He currently lives in an apartment away from the family and likes his ability to "get away" rather than face anyone (or reality). When "serious" talk is attempted, he gives us the silent treatment and gets cranky like he is 3 years old. He does not know how to be a man as God intended. Do I let him, and the whole family, "wallow" in non-religiousness or take some form of action in addition to our prayers?
My wife, my children, and my in-laws love Harry Potter books and movies, and will not even consider discussing the negative effects of them.
My co-workers have incredible minds which appear to have given up on truth for the sake of financial health (and I have also fallen right into it).
Our parish cannot stop bickering (basically materialistic issues), our newest pastor apparently shuns and chases away generational parish families and those who have stewardship to share, and our Archhdiocese seems more interested in closing parishes than building faith.
My basic American life has plenty of proof that Satan has great control. However, even with this understanding, I somehow lack the strength to be a man and profess Truth.
I agree completely with the post from CyberSaint, and feel many souls are misled and have actually been made weak, but I am also waiting to see his hope... as Shemp's post greatly expresses...
What do you think should be done?
Karl, you, out of all people, know what to do (we'll comment in the forums anyways if you really want input). Please, teach us to have the virtues of fortitude, prudence, temperance and justice.
I know I need God's Grace, and I pray that he grants all souls His Forgiveness and the understanding to accept and trust in it.
Thank you for the forums and the work you do.
Sincerely,
Steve

Miles_Christi · #38 Jun 12, '07, 11:29 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stevek

I get the impression that there is a (possibly self-willed) great divide between those who love God (or even at least try) and those who are complete victims of very successful "assaults on our culture by Satan" (very well stated, CyberSaint). "Obviously!" you may proclaim, but are the faithful supposed to distance themselves from those who are "dis-believing dogs", or are they to simply pray for these victims, or are they to pray and use their talents (or even basic abilities) to attempt to help? (This is a question hoping for answers)

Steve,

I wouldn't be too certain that there is such a big difference between people like you and me and the other people on the CAF and people like Paris Hilton or that other one their, Linsday Lohan. We are after all are sinners and given the inability for us to know exactly how God's grace and mercy are dispensed upon them, I don't think there is such a difference. The only difference I would say is in any way solid is that we presumably respond to God's grace and to do our best to live in accordance with it, but that in and of itself cannot be precisely known either! But considering Paris Hilton and who she is, we obviously do have a rather solid indication of these things as we all know what kind of life she leads, or leaded before she got sent to the "pokey" i.e "clink". After all, even those who have completely turned themselves away from God and righteousness only need to turn around and they will see the error of their ways. That in my mind is the only real verifiable difference between those of us sinners who "work out your salvation in fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12) by constantly turning ourselves toward God and asking His forgiveness and those who do not. To quote Fr. Corapi, "God's name...is Mercy", and to quote whatever Protestant wrote that hymn "Our God is an Awesome God" (however doctrinally incorrect it may be), it's quite true, true beyond our human ability to even fully comprehend it! Now I don't know about you, but that it certainly reassuring to me that if I ever turn against God again for a prolonged period of time and end up becoming some worldly person like Paris Hilton (Deus in adiutorium meum intende, Domine ad adiuvandum me festina!...

), God will have Mercy and gently (and sometimes not so gently) help me turn around.

And I'm not quite sure where you're getting the term "dis-believing dogs", but I think that's a little harsh.

First of all, there's the obvious issue of respecting the dignity of every human being who God made in His image and His likeness, so even though some people may act like they're "dis-believing dogs", they really aren't in a theological sense.

And yes, of course pray for them. Instructing the faithful to avoid them? Well I would relegate that as a personal decision of each faithful as it depends on whether you would consider watching a news story about it or letting your kids watch a news story about it be exposure to it a sin of some type (commission, omission, etc.). Anyways, unless you're in CA or or have some personal link to the situation (which I'm guessing you don't...lol

, then there's not much you can do but pray.

Miles_Christi · #39 Jun 12, '07, 11:32 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stevek

Our parish cannot stop bickering (basically materialistic issues), our newest pastor apparently shuns and chases away generational parish families and those who have stewardship to share, and our Archhdiocese seems more interested in closing parishes than building faith.
--
What do you think should be done?
Karl, you, out of all people, know what to do (we'll comment in the forums anyways if you really want input). Please, teach us to have the virtues of fortitude, prudence, temperance and justice.
I know I need God's Grace, and I pray that he grants all souls His Forgiveness and the understanding to accept and trust in it.
Thank you for the forums and the work you do.
Sincerely,
Steve

Steve,

Concerning your parish problems, I can most definitely relate. The Archdiocese of Boston is in much of the same situation, something which I have to face everyday (when I'm not having a miraculously great time living the faith at Ave Maria U). I often find that the Archdiocese is more focused on the same matters of trying to prevent more parishes from closing and generally trying to ensure that the general public doesn't loathe the church. Evangelization isn't exactly at the top of their list of priorities, but I can understand why the order is the way it is in Boston. My advice to you in this type of situation is to pray and listen. My parish is very similar. In the past, I've gotten into verbal altercations with nearly every priest at my parish; not to say I don't considered my self justified for doing so, not that they weren't doing or saying something wrong, and not that I always started it. But nevertheless, it didn't get me anywhere (literally...they all basically can't stand me anymore because they think that I think I'm better than them or something), and it won't get you anywhere; the best thing you can do is listen and sometimes not respond. And Pray. God is ultimately in control and I am a firm believer in the power of prayer and if you're worried about parish life, then pray about it and God, through his instruments (like faithful Catholics like us!) will make things right. Might I suggest a Confiteor then some Ave Maria's? I find that a good Act of Contrition then a number of Hail Mary's satisfies whatever aggravations tend to arise in my parish.
--
And Steve, I agree with you and applaud Mr. Keating in his tremendous success of Catholic Answers and instructing us all in the faith, but I think Mr. Keating would agree with me that he can't take on this enormous burden himself!

Cyclops · #40 Jun 13, '07, 1:45 am

How to reach those innoculated against truth by the distractions of comfort, gadgets, McNews and celebrityism? Very hard!

In fact, that's the clue -- life has to get hard for them, or at least life's hardness needs to break through the insulation. In other words, SUFFERING is necessary.

In the normal course of things (ie, grace aside), I don't think it's possible to embrace the Good News without first hearing and believing the Bad News. In my experience of dealing with the types Karl refers to in his e-letter, the Good news just doesn't sound like good news if you can't see how bad things really are.

Which is why suffering is often a mercy.

We can of course spiritually take on some suffering on behalf of these souls as a way of pleading for grace - 'prayer and fasting'. Our own mortifications, prayerfully offered, can be of great assistance.

RNRobert · #41 Jun 13, '07, 3:37 am

In reading Karl's E-letter I was reminded of Lewis's short story titled Screwtape Proposes a Toast. Much of what Lewis writes about is happening today. the devil Screwtape tells of a young lady who prays, "Lord, make me a twentieth century girl," which Screwtape says will mean, "Make me a minx, a moron and a parasite."

Clonmacnoise · #42 Jun 13, '07, 4:01 am

Karl,

Detaching from popular culture begins in the beginning with teaching little children the difference between good stuff and junk. It also begins with parents who know about the world, but who are not fixated on it. And therein lies your problem.

The joy in junk is taught. When children see parents a ga ga over the antics of the stage clowns and fixated on soaps and poor TV, children can't help acquiring tastes that are too worldly.

But if parents don't know one thing from another, they can't raise the level of taste to something other.

You can't imagine how many children watch the worst stuff at home because parents just don't understand that formation begins early. So when a child watches what amounts to pornography, he will be influenced just as much as if parents make a big deal about a really good movie or a piece of music.

Teachers have some luck, but most influence comes from the home.

Clon

dadunigan · #43 Jun 13, '07, 4:42 am

Giving up television is key. We haven't had it for over four years. The internet can be as invasive so we limit that too. My ten year old hardly uses the computer, she has grown to see it as another intrusion into our lives. I encourage her to write with a pen rather than type on a keyboard. In any event, not exposing yourself and your family to popular culture has incredible rewards. We also home school with a Catholic classcial curriculum which has been the most positive experience for us. With television not an option reading books, drawing or writing fill the time. Someone mentioned Fr. John Corapi on this thread. I was given a CD that he recorded for Catholic home schoolers. It is wonderful and encourages us to swim against the tide, particularly in raising and educating our children.

Bob Rowland · #44 Jun 13, '07, 5:55 am

We might start by refusing celebrities the publicity they seem to crave. You really have to wonder, how many other "juvenile" delinquents the sheriff sent home with a tummy ache. What important events are being overlooked with the ad nauseam pander of the "news" media. I think you lost your audience in your newsletter when you couldn't even resist talking about Paris.

mikelsim · #45 Jun 13, '07, 6:07 am

You are right Karl as usual. The only thing that I have found that works for me is to get the person alone in another activity and then bring up something about your personal spiritual life and then try to bridge the gap to theirs. I have done this by playing golf with a person. It shocks me sometimes to find out that the other person is looking for someone to share with but never realized that I was someone who would be responsive. So, as is normal, I find that I am not doing such a good job at showing my Catholic Faith in my daily living.