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  #1  
Old Jun 14, '07, 5:31 pm
Laurence of PA Laurence of PA is offline
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Red face The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

I have a legitemate and relevant question in regards to the Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism. However, I cannot ask it blindly unless at least some people here are members of the Order of the Arrow or at the very least familiar with it.

I myself am a member of this organization -- considered the national honor society of scouting -- yet I have concerns over certain aspects of it, and as you may have noticed, freemasonry (that organization so bitterly condemned by the Church) is tied in.

I apologize in advance for not straight out asking anything or really allowing anyone to answer, but I just first want to see if there is anyone here with whom I can converse about it with.

P.S. No where are on the web will you (or should you) find anything about the ceremonies or secrets of the OA, but if I can just get a dialogue going with someone who understands, I'd appreciate input from anybody. Thank you.
  #2  
Old Jun 14, '07, 5:34 pm
water water is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

from Wiki - not sure if it is accurate.

Quote:
Freemasonry is a fraternal organization with millions of members.[1] It exists in various forms worldwide, with shared moral and metaphysical ideals and in most of its branches requires a constitutional declaration of belief in a Supreme Being.
What is Supreme Being? Who is Supreme Being?
  #3  
Old Jun 14, '07, 5:53 pm
Laurence of PA Laurence of PA is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by water View Post
from Wiki - not sure if it is accurate.



What is Supreme Being? Who is Supreme Being?
If I'm not mistaken, I think it's God, and I think you secretly worship Him.

(Yes, your secret is revealed )

By the way, the Boy Scouts of America requires belief in some sort of God (feel free to substitute Supreme Being) in order to even be a scout, but neither does it specify in what way you should practice your religion. If you read the rest of that Wiki page or consult with the masons I know, you'll find that the BSA policy is the same as the Freemasonry one.

And if you think Freemasonry is some sort of deistic religion with "The Supreme Being." as its deity: Consider how it was our deistic founding fathers who put "In God we Trust" on our dollar bill and national seal. If they didn't worship God and instead just worshipped this "Supreme Being", why would they use the word "God" here? The answer is that the two terms are interchangable!

However...Remember, I didn't pose my question yet and am still waiting to find an OA member here.
  #4  
Old Jun 14, '07, 5:59 pm
dessert dessert is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

I believe that the Girl scouts took God out of their oath many years ago too bad.


The OA (overeaters anonymous) say higher power, my mom was a member awhile ago, but no more.

Dessert
  #5  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:09 pm
dessert dessert is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

OK my mom was an OA member for a couple years but she said it helped her because they let her talk about all her problems and they did heve to speak the oath which she did not feel comfotable with not saying God. She got to talk on and on without any criticism from my dad or anyone so it was just an outlet for her but then it did hekp her self esteem and then she didn't feel like eating so much. So the fellowship helped her but she still had to live with my dad. It was an escape. Isn't that what Order's are about. Not a way of life I man but a temp escape for a day a month.
Dessert
  #6  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:10 pm
thistle thistle is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence of PA View Post
I have a legitemate and relevant question in regards to the Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism. However, I cannot ask it blindly unless at least some people here are members of the Order of the Arrow or at the very least familiar with it.

I myself am a member of this organization -- considered the national honor society of scouting -- yet I have concerns over certain aspects of it, and as you may have noticed, freemasonry (that organization so bitterly condemned by the Church) is tied in.

I apologize in advance for not straight out asking anything or really allowing anyone to answer, but I just first want to see if there is anyone here with whom I can converse about it with.

P.S. No where are on the web will you (or should you) find anything about the ceremonies or secrets of the OA, but if I can just get a dialogue going with someone who understands, I'd appreciate input from anybody. Thank you.
I know nothing about the Order of the Arrow but Freemasonry is definitely condemned (rightly so) by the Church. Freemasonry and Catholicism are incompatible and a Catholic is forbidden to become a Freemason. To do so is a grave sin.
  #7  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:12 pm
dessert dessert is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence of PA View Post
I have a legitemate and relevant question in regards to the Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism. However, I cannot ask it blindly unless at least some people here are members of the Order of the Arrow or at the very least familiar with it.

I myself am a member of this organization -- considered the national honor society of scouting -- yet I have concerns over certain aspects of it, and as you may have noticed, freemasonry (that organization so bitterly condemned by the Church) is tied in.

I apologize in advance for not straight out asking anything or really allowing anyone to answer, but I just first want to see if there is anyone here with whom I can converse about it with.

P.S. No where are on the web will you (or should you) find anything about the ceremonies or secrets of the OA, but if I can just get a dialogue going with someone who understands, I'd appreciate input from anybody. Thank you.
Why do you say the Order of Catholicism?

Define what you mean by Order.

Dessert
  #8  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:13 pm
Nevarlander Nevarlander is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

The reason Freemasonry's unacceptable is that it sets up a separate/parallel religion for its members. Swearing to a "Supreme Being" isn't objectionable in itself, because you do believe in a Supreme Being.
  #9  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:22 pm
Laurence of PA Laurence of PA is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by dessert View Post
I believe that the Girl scouts took God out of their oath many years ago too bad.


The OA (overeaters anonymous) say higher power, my mom was a member awhile ago, but no more.

Dessert
Quote:
Originally Posted by dessert View Post
OK my mom was an OA member for a couple years but she said it helped her because they let her talk about all her problems and they did heve to speak the oath which she did not feel comfotable with not saying God. She got to talk on and on without any criticism from my dad or anyone so it was just an outlet for her but then it did hekp her self esteem and then she didn't feel like eating so much. So the fellowship helped her but she still had to live with my dad. It was an escape. Isn't that what Order's are about. Not a way of life I man but a temp escape for a day a month.
Dessert
What the???

I don't even want to swallow whatever OA this is that you're talking about, but I'm talking about the Order of the Arrow.
  #10  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:22 pm
rwoehmke rwoehmke is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

I have been a member of OA in the past and as a person deeply involved with Scouting for over 45 years have known a lot of OA members including three of my five sons. I cannot quite see how anyone would connect OA to Free Masonary except in an extremely superficial manner. I would assume that some Masonic Groups sponsor Scout units although I am not familiar with any.Yes, the Boy Scout movement requires a Scout to believe in God/Supreme Being/Higher Power because Scouts come from all faiths that believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. So Muslims, Christians, Jews and Deists all qualify. An atheist would not meet the requirement and I have personally set on a board that denied Eagle Scout rank to a boy who was a professed atheist. I will answer if I can, so ask away. By the way I am a Roman Catholic and Counsel both girl and boy scouts earning Catholic Religious Awards such as Ad Altari Dei and the Marian Medal.
  #11  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:23 pm
Laurence of PA Laurence of PA is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle View Post
I know nothing about the Order of the Arrow but Freemasonry is definitely condemned (rightly so) by the Church. Freemasonry and Catholicism are incompatible and a Catholic is forbidden to become a Freemason. To do so is a grave sin.
O.K. I understand this sentiment, which is why I am waiting for someone who is a member of the Order of the Arrow before I pose my question.
  #12  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:27 pm
dmelosi dmelosi is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence of PA View Post
I have a legitemate and relevant question in regards to the Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism. However, I cannot ask it blindly unless at least some people here are members of the Order of the Arrow or at the very least familiar with it.

I myself am a member of this organization -- considered the national honor society of scouting -- yet I have concerns over certain aspects of it, and as you may have noticed, freemasonry (that organization so bitterly condemned by the Church) is tied in.

I apologize in advance for not straight out asking anything or really allowing anyone to answer, but I just first want to see if there is anyone here with whom I can converse about it with.

P.S. No where are on the web will you (or should you) find anything about the ceremonies or secrets of the OA, but if I can just get a dialogue going with someone who understands, I'd appreciate input from anybody. Thank you.
Many, many years ago I was selected as a boy scout for OA, but I have only very faint memories of the ceremony. Sorry
  #13  
Old Jun 14, '07, 6:36 pm
rwoehmke rwoehmke is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmelosi View Post
Many, many years ago I was selected as a boy scout for OA, but I have only very faint memories of the ceremony. Sorry
The Boys in your unit must have recognized you as an outstanding Scout for that to happen. Congratulations!
  #14  
Old Jun 14, '07, 7:04 pm
dessert dessert is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence of PA View Post
What the???

I don't even want to swallow whatever OA this is that you're talking about, but I'm talking about the Order of the Arrow.

Oh I'm sorry got confused about what you were talking about

Dessert
  #15  
Old Jun 14, '07, 7:19 pm
Leperchaun Leperchaun is offline
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Default Re: The Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence of PA View Post
I have a legitemate and relevant question in regards to the Order of the Arrow, Freemasonry, and Catholicism. However, I cannot ask it blindly unless at least some people here are members of the Order of the Arrow or at the very least familiar with it.

I myself am a member of this organization -- considered the national honor society of scouting -- yet I have concerns over certain aspects of it, and as you may have noticed, freemasonry (that organization so bitterly condemned by the Church) is tied in.

I apologize in advance for not straight out asking anything or really allowing anyone to answer, but I just first want to see if there is anyone here with whom I can converse about it with.

P.S. No where are on the web will you (or should you) find anything about the ceremonies or secrets of the OA, but if I can just get a dialogue going with someone who understands, I'd appreciate input from anybody. Thank you.
First off, you will find that any fraternal organization that doesn't readily disclose information about itself is automatically determined by someone, somewhere as tied to freemasonry (whether it actually is or isn't). Further, as a past MC for our local OA lodge, I can tell you that although you won't find anything on the web, within the OA we were not allowed to refuse someone access to our ceremonies because they aren't supposed to be considered secrets, just private and therefor unpublicized and not given out without good reason (so I was told by all of the leaders I spoke with in my lodge about it). Now, as a matter of practicality, I never had a point where I was asked by someone not in OA or entering OA about the ceremonies, and therefore was never required to discuss them, but if a parent had requested attendance, it would have been granted. As a private matter, for most people, it's not really their business, I don't discuss or share the contents of the ceremonies and having gone through at least one of the ceremonies, (if you remember much, in my experience most people don't) you probably know that there isn't anything bad about them.

As mentioned earlier, BSA is very religion oriented, and makes it a point not to step on any religious toes, OA, at least officially, does the same (you will always be able to find groups that play by there own rules, and the national OA hierarchy doesn't exactly have a tight reign on the lodges, at least from my experience).
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