Karl Keating's E-Letter of September 28, 2004

**Forum Admin** · #1 Sep 28, '04, 9:30 am

Karl's E-Letter of September 28, 2004

Topics:

At Sea
RCIA Brings in 150,000
The Largest Churches in America
My "Boston Globe" Interview

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http://www.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_040928.asp

goat · #2 Sep 28, '04, 11:45 am

Incidentally, the Boston Globe managed to work in this indirect reference to Catholic Answers, in an column by James Carroll:

It is a distortion of the Catholic tradition to insist that all such questions have already been answered with "non-negotiable" regulations.

Carroll, who apparently attends the same Paulist center as John Kerry, goes on to misconstrue basic Catholic teaching in the rest of the article:

Kerry's Catholicism

Sounds like you're getting under their skin, Karl!

CatholicChef · #3 Sep 28, '04, 3:15 pm

I agree that the Catholic Church is not directly telling us how to vote, but it's obvious we are suppose to vote Republican. Most of the "non-negotiables" are backed by Democrats and that's no secret. Although Bush says he's against abortion, do you really believe he can or will make it illegal? No he can't and probably wouldn't if he could.
I watched the rerun of the Bush and Gore debate the other night and it was shocking just how much this man has lied to us. What will he do if we put him in for four more years?
Killing the unborn is a terrible sin, but so is the killing of thousands of men, women, and children in an unjust war. And the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and in the end it will destroy our county.
If I do vote I'll probably vote for Nader just to send a message to Washington that the two party system is outdated and is not working. We can be controlled as long as it stays the way it is.
The way I see it we no longer have a choice.

La Chiara · #4 Sep 28, '04, 6:58 pm

I was especially fascinated by the statistics given in Karl's latest e-letter for the largest churches in the US. In particular, I found it fascinating that if you total all the evangelical/fundamentalist/non-denominational churches, they would rival the 66.4 million Catholics in the US, and far outnumber the largest Protestant denomination--Southern Baptists at 16.2 million. Karl states that 150,000 Americans came into the Catholic Church through RCIA at Easter. Sounds like a lot to me, though I wonder how it compares to previous periods (such as 10 years ago). I have met a lot of recent converts to Catholicism through RCIA and it seems to me the conversions are growing. But I base that only on anecdotal evidence and hope that others find the fullness of our Catholic faith.

qmvsimp · #5 Sep 28, '04, 7:44 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatholicChef

I agree that the Catholic Church is not directly telling us how to vote, but it's obvious we are suppose to vote Republican. Most of the "non-negotiables" are backed by Democrats and that's no secret. Although Bush says he's against abortion, do you really believe he can or will make it illegal? No he can't and probably wouldn't if he could.

We are called to be faithful, not successful. Voting for a pro-abortion candidate instead of a pro-life candidate simply because the pro-life candidate won't be successful is immoral.

qmvsimp · #6 Sep 28, '04, 7:47 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatholicChef

Killing the unborn is a terrible sin, but so is the killing of thousands of men, women, and children in an unjust war.

You can be a faithful Catholic and be for or against the war in Iraq. You can only be a faithful Catholic if you are against abortion. The two are not morally equivalent.

qmvsimp · #7 Sep 28, '04, 7:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by La Chiara

I was especially fascinated by the statistics given in Karl's latest e-letter for the largest churches in the US. In particular, I found it fascinating that if you total all the evangelical/fundamentalist/non-denominational churches, they would rival the 66.4 million Catholics in the US, and far outnumber the largest Protestant denomination--Southern Baptists at 16.2 million. Karl states that 150,000 Americans came into the Catholic Church through RCIA at Easter. Sounds like a lot to me, though I wonder how it compares to previous periods (such as 10 years ago). I have met a lot of recent converts to Catholicism through RCIA and it seems to me the conversions are growing. But I base that only on anecdotal evidence and hope that others find the fullness of our Catholic faith.

An important question here is how many are leaving the Church to go elsewhere. I do not know the answer, but if it is more than 150,000, we have our work cut out for us.

lsburk · #8 Sep 28, '04, 7:53 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatholicChef

I agree that the Catholic Church is not directly telling us how to vote, but it's obvious we are suppose to vote Republican. Most of the "non-negotiables" are backed by Democrats and that's no secret. Although Bush says he's against abortion, do you really believe he can or will make it illegal? No he can't and probably wouldn't if he could.
I watched the rerun of the Bush and Gore debate the other night and it was shocking just how much this man has lied to us. What will he do if we put him in for four more years?
Killing the unborn is a terrible sin, but so is the killing of thousands of men, women, and children in an unjust war. And the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and in the end it will destroy our county.
If I do vote I'll probably vote for Nader just to send a message to Washington that the two party system is outdated and is not working. We can be controlled as long as it stays the way it is.
The way I see it we no longer have a choice.

1) Lied about what? Keep in mind that a lie is the intentional hiding or changing of the truth. I want to emphasize intentional.
2) Maybe thousands of men but where are the thousands of women and thousands of children that you refer to?
3) Nader is pro-abortion.

Personally, I think you are a Bush hater who has signed on to this website with the intention of perpetuating prevarications about Bush.

Fitz · #9 Sep 28, '04, 9:19 pm

I just went on the Catholics for Kerry site today and read that they filed something against CA due to the voters quide and also due to the fact that in a newsletter Karl said Kerry flunked on all counts. They are saying that it is against the non profit rules of a religious organization.

Go to the site if you want. It is a hateful place and I don't think I will be returning there. I just hope that your lawyers advised you correctly Karl!

I feel like this election is tearing our church apart. I know these problems were festering for years, but it is really bad.

stumbler · #10 Sep 28, '04, 9:57 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz

I feel like this election is tearing our church apart. I know these problems were festering for years, but it is really bad.

Show the way with humility and charity. If some elect to follow their own "doctrines" and leave, that is their choice. The result will be a stronger church that will be more attractive to more believers.

Fitz · #11 Sep 29, '04, 5:00 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumbler

Show the way with humility and charity. If some elect to follow their own "doctrines" and leave, that is their choice. The result will be a stronger church that will be more attractive to more believers.

I guess that is the way I should look at it, but when some of those people are friends and family, it gets tough.

PKK · #12 Sep 29, '04, 5:17 am

When dealing with the truth of the Church, it is hard especially when we are talking about family and especially our children who are lured away by society. But I will stick by my faith in the Catholic Church and her beliefs. If I don't I am claiming what they are that Faith is what YOU make it. Besides if we stick by our faith, we are still teaching our families what the truth is, and that it is unchangeable.

CatholicChef · #13 Sep 29, '04, 6:25 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsburk

1) Lied about what? Keep in mind that a lie is the intentional hiding or changing of the truth. I want to emphasize intentional.
2) Maybe thousands of men but where are the thousands of women and thousands of children that you refer to?
3) Nader is pro-abortion.

Personally, I think you are a Bush hater who has signed on to this website with the intention of perpetuating prevarications about Bush.

You are wrong in your thinking because I have been a member of this forum since it started and you are also wrong in calling me a Bush hater. I don't hate anyone, but I do love my country.

1) Yes, a lie is the intentional hiding or changing of the truth.
2) In the thousands I am including the women and children of Iraq. (Who will be next?)
3) Nader says a president can do little to change the abortion laws and he's right. Al Gore said he would ban partial birth abortion also. (No, I'm not a democrat, just stating facts)

My whole point is that there are other issues. If we destroy our country there will be no need to worry about fighting abortion. Bush wants to be a war hero and that scares me.
We need to save our country so that we can save our children.

Joe Kelley · #14 Sep 29, '04, 1:04 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatholicChef

. . . Al Gore said he would ban partial birth abortion also. (No, I'm not a democrat, just stating facts)
. . .

Where was he when Clinton was vetoing that bill? Keeping a very low profile??

Evan · #15 Oct 1, '04, 4:43 pm

On the question of those who died in the Iraq conflict and subsequent reconstruction.

Don't forget to count the 10s of thousands who died in Sadam's regime. If we had not pushed, would the UN have sanctioned him? If we had not intervened, would we not be as guilty as we were in coming into the 2nd world war to combat the evil of nazism?

The most legitimate question is "At what point is military action called for?" We must first exhaust the diplomatic, economic, and multilateral means.

Sadam had very little reaction to the non-military options since he was concerned only with Sadam and family. So it was up to the legitimate powers to effect a change. It is possible, GWB led us into war for the wrong reason, but it is not us and them. Jesus came with the message that we must love one another, even if they live in Iraq.

According to Tom Jefferson and the Decl of Independence, a government is only legitimate so long as it protects the inalianable rights of it's citizens, including the weakest.

Did Sadam's gvt protect their citizens? Does ours (Unborn and Aged).

.........Yes, I know, I can hear you: "we are not the worlds police". But as Christians, we are the worlds hope.