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  #1  
Old Jun 2, '04, 6:38 pm
Dave Dave is offline
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Default The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Those of us of faith accept fully that the entire cannon of scripture is inspired of God, however those looking for reasons to attack Christians over their views of homosexuality always cite this arguement:

Quote:
"Jesus never mentions homosexuality in his ministry, so it can't be that big of a deal..."
How do you answer this question to people that 'discount' the validaty of anything written outside of the Gospels?
  #2  
Old Jun 2, '04, 6:45 pm
ralphinal ralphinal is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Perhaps the answer lies in the expansion of the Ten Commandments. If lusting in the heart is adultry, then even our thoughts must be confined to the actions between a man and a woman joined in matrimony. Perhaps this is a start...
  #3  
Old Jun 2, '04, 6:54 pm
Edwin1961 Edwin1961 is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

And how about Romans chapter one which near the end of the chapter, Paul talks about men leaving relations with women and being 'un-natural with other men'.

Does this further support the non Gospel account too?

Go with God!
Edwin
  #4  
Old Jun 2, '04, 7:43 pm
tmitchell2 tmitchell2 is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Those of us of faith accept fully that the entire cannon of scripture is inspired of God, however those looking for reasons to attack Christians over their views of homosexuality always cite this arguement:



How do you answer this question to people that 'discount' the validaty of anything written outside of the Gospels?
Just use Matthew 19:4 - 6, where Jesus reaffirms Genesis 1:27 >From the beginning He made them male and female, and the man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one.< Can't get any more explicit than that!
  #5  
Old Jun 2, '04, 8:33 pm
PhilVaz PhilVaz is offline
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Arrow Sodom

In fact, Jesus does mention homosexuality in the Gospels when he refers to Sodom and Gomorrah. See for example

Matthew 10:15 -- "I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town."

also Matt 11:23ff; Luke 10:12; Luke 17:29

So Jesus was well aware of the "sin of Sodom" that required God's judgment. It wasn't "inhospitality" as some "pro-gay" theologians attempt to argue....

From an evangelical site by Greg Koukl

Commentary on Jude 7 referring to Sodom

Different view from Jewish texts

And some pro-gay biblical scholars, probably taken out of context

Phil P
  #6  
Old Jun 2, '04, 10:22 pm
Lorarose Lorarose is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Jesus MAY have mentioned homosexuality!
And that MAY be why the early christians were opposed to it!

Many assume that the words and actions of Jesus portrayed in scriptures encompasses ALL the words and actions of Jesus.

But doesn't the gospel of John tell us otherwise?
Didn't he specifically say he could not accomplish that?

And that is why it is so important to look also at what the early christians taught about homosexuality - as they were closer to Jesus and the apostles - the ones who actually DID hear what Jesus had to say - whether it made it to "print" or not!
  #7  
Old Jun 3, '04, 4:41 am
Edwin1961 Edwin1961 is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

I am thinking that the Corinthians were a very sexual loose society when Paul appeared on the scene. I think something around 1 Cor 5 may be a clue.

Go with God!
Edwin
  #8  
Old Jun 3, '04, 8:11 am
Faithful 2 Rome Faithful 2 Rome is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

I was attacked verbally on this very question from some homosexuals recently. This is what I had to say, and in turn THEY had nothing further to say to me..well..except that I was "intolerant"

Naturally, their argument is that JESUS (NEVER) said ANYTHING about Homosexuals.... FIRST: I told them he CONFIRMED, Genesis..MAN & WOMAN, etc... THEN..

in fact, when one can read DEEPER into what scripture tells us, one does in FACT find Jesus speaking of this subject:

Jesus spoke to the Apostles of sending them the HOLY SPIRIT to FURTHER (INSTRUCT) them on their mission to spreading the FAITH and TEACHINGS of GOD. Jesus BREATHED the HOLY SPIRIT (INTO/ONTO) the Apostles telling them to RECIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT. Since we believe in the HOLY TRINITY..ONE GOD in THREE (DISTINCT) BEINGS..GOD the Father, God the Son, and GOD, the Holy Spirit... they CANNOT be separated from each other, but yet each act accordingly...but ALWAYS in UNION...ONE in being (WITH) the FATHER...The Holy SPIRIT (PROCEEDS from the Father AND the SON..WITH the Father and the Son, he is WORSHIPPED and GLORIFIED..he has SPOKEN (thru) the Prophets... therefore, ALL that the apostles taught and agreed upon, was from the Holy Spirit..which was breathed upon/into the Apostles by Jesus HIMSELF... the Apostles didnt say things on their own accord, unless they stated something was of THEIR (OWN) opinion. So technically, YES..Jesus DID speak out on homosexuality, thru the teachings of the Holy Spirit (which proceeds from the Father & Son) he said HE would SEND the Paraclete to instruct and help... end of story, end of debate with Homosexuals who say Jesus NEVER said ANYTHING on being Gay... um, yeah...he did... its not even a stretch to accept this expanation..only ones pride and being steeped in that sin will harden their hearts to accepting this FACT.... you cannot separate the Acts of the Apostles, Letters, etc..from NOT being part of the NEW TESTAMENT..something that homosexuals try arguing..that NOWHERE in the NEW TESTAMENT are their actions CONDEMNED.. um..yeah.. the action IS... The ACTS, etc..wasnt just thrown in as an afterthought...

Regardless..dont expect a round of applause and a conversion from whatever homosexual you explain this to.... like a dyed in the wool far left liberal, they will most likely IGNORE your proof, explanation, well reasoned debate, and instead of addressing what you said, they will go flit off to some other point, topic, etc.. to try and support their viewpoint...
  #9  
Old Jun 3, '04, 8:28 am
jc_escobar jc_escobar is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Hi,

Jesus might not have spelled the word homosexuality in the Gospels. However he gives several eferences to the punishments made to Sodom and Gomorra. At least Sodom was punished largely for homosexual acts.
I believe this would be a good way to prove that even if the word homosexuality is no directly mentioned in the Gospels it's evil is implicit in it's teaching.
On the other side, if you don't regard the OT as inspired, how can you know if Jesus is the Messiah? or if there is supposed to be a Messiah?
Also Jesus told the apostles to follow what the Faresis preached since they seat in Moses sit but not what they did. With this, he is implying that what Moses tought is to be Believed as true. That includes the rule of a man not to lay with another man as he does with a woman.

Hope this helps,
Blessings.
J.C.
  #10  
Old Jun 3, '04, 9:48 am
tmitchell2 tmitchell2 is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorarose
Jesus MAY have mentioned homosexuality!
And that MAY be why the early christians were opposed to it!

Many assume that the words and actions of Jesus portrayed in scriptures encompasses ALL the words and actions of Jesus.

But doesn't the gospel of John tell us otherwise?
Didn't he specifically say he could not accomplish that?

And that is why it is so important to look also at what the early christians taught about homosexuality - as they were closer to Jesus and the apostles - the ones who actually DID hear what Jesus had to say - whether it made it to "print" or not!
What exactly are you referring to in John's Gospel?

I don't get the significance of "MAY" in your posting. Jesus DEFINITELY affirmed a Male/Female marriage and does condemn ALL lust. If a homosexual is soooo steeped in sin, he/she can't see immorality no matter what.
  #11  
Old Jun 3, '04, 11:02 am
JimG JimG is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

I think Lorarose must have been referring to John 21:24-25.
"It is this same disciple who is witness to these things; it is he who wrote them down, and his testimony, we know, is true. There are still many other things that Jesus did, yet, if they were written about in detail, I doubt there would be room enough in the entire world to hold the books to record them."

JimG
  #12  
Old Jun 3, '04, 11:05 am
tmitchell2 tmitchell2 is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Thanks for the info--now it makes sense!
  #13  
Old Jun 3, '04, 11:42 am
thomasj317
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

In my opinion, people need to look at this from an entirely different angle.

God most definitely spoke loud and clear about homosexual acts, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We all know the OT and NT passages that speak about homosexuality. As Catholics, we believe that the Bible was written by men, yet it was inspired by God (the Holy Spirit).

Here is what many people miss:

The Father is God!
The Son is God!
The Holy Spirit is God!

The Son is Jesus.
Jesus is God.

One cannot say that the Bible (OT and NT) came from God without including Jesus in that statement of belief! Every canonical book in the Bible came from God and Jesus is God!

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God; all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made."
  #14  
Old Jun 3, '04, 10:56 pm
Lorarose Lorarose is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Thank you JimG - yes that is the verse I was referring to.
And by the word "may" - I meant what St. John stated in that verse.

In other words: the apostles spent alot of time with Jesus. They heard alot of His words about many subjects. Not all of this made it into print.
Jesus MAY have directly discussed homosexuality with them in a more direct manner than what we can already read in scriptures.

The apostles did not have the New Testament with them after Jesus ascended. They remembered what Jesus spoke to them over those years - and carried that with them as they evangelized.

It is important to study what the early christians believed about homosexuality - because they would have received their beliefs from the apostles - who received them from Jesus.

As it is...Paul was pretty clear in his letter to the Romans wasn't he?
  #15  
Old Jun 4, '04, 6:45 am
everlastingthur everlastingthur is offline
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Default Re: The 'Jesus Never Mentioned Homosexuality' Argument

Whether Jesus mentioned homosexuality is beside the point. Paul did mention it. To only believe something because "Jesus said it" would be to rip out all of the New Testament besides the four gospels. ALL scripture is true and inspired by God. To counter Paul some have claimed he was a homosexual. Jesus may have said it to the apostles. Whether he said it or not Scripture does condemn homosexuality. Unfortunately, there's an attitude in America today that disagreeing with someone is a sin. Scripture says "Love your neighbor" not "Always agree with your neighbor". Nor does it say "Facillitate your neighbors' sinful lifestyles" It's not a pleasant topic, but Scripture does call homosexuality sinful. Twisting Scripture to support one's erroneous beliefs is also sinful, but not as sinful as forcing others to do the same.
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