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  #46  
Old Jul 25, '07, 7:22 pm
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Join Date: August 3, 2004
Posts: 1,078
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 3, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dulcimer View Post
Is this a fair/just characterization of the Catholics? I'm not sure one can so quickly lump them all together and say "most Catholics believe thus"...(or "most protestants" for that matter)...
Note an important distinction. I said most "use" a certain definition in their conversation, not "believe." Most Catholics and Protestants believe as one on the how we're saved question. I think it's a fair characterization. We've had 500 years of a misunderstanding between faith alone and faith and works. Even today, many Catholics and Protestants debate the issue. It isn't meant to be a put down, just a misunderstanding. Are you telling me that if you ask a Protestant how we're saved, you don't think the majority will say "faith alone" showing which definition they use? Or Catholics will say "faith and works."
Quote:
Is there a link to that document online? I'd love to read it!
Ask and ye shall receive: http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft94...s/mission.html
  #47  
Old Jul 26, '07, 8:12 am
Dulcimer Dulcimer is offline
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Join Date: July 12, 2007
Posts: 207
Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 3, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by qmvsimp View Post

Bless you!

(And by the way, there is much discussion among the Protestant laity re: faith alone vs. faith + works...I for one have wrestled with this question for years, and I know I'm not alone!)
__________________
"How can the gods speak to us face-to-face till we have faces?"
~ C.S. Lewis
  #48  
Old Jul 28, '07, 12:01 am
viper78912 viper78912 is offline
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Join Date: November 10, 2006
Posts: 90
Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 3, 2007

Hi Karl.In Luke 15.11-32, the Prodigal son was ALREADY forgiven when he decided to turnaround.(Metanoia).The father was waiting with outstetched arms & refused to hear his sins.
It s also a fact that the same sin evokes a different reaction from diferent confessors.
Perhaps the Church should consider extending the absolution in Holy Mass to all sins, not only venial.
"He who sins in one, sins in all."(James 2.10).
regards,denis
  #49  
Old Sep 18, '07, 7:51 am
EDWARDANBU EDWARDANBU is offline
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Join Date: September 18, 2007
Posts: 1
Religion: PENTECOST
Default Re: Confession! "now let's HEAR your sin!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewchoo View Post
beautiful confession story. that we could all have confessions like that!
hello friends,
when jesus is there to hear and forgive your sins why to confess to a man . jesus is always waiting for you . but remeber one thing dont keep continuing with your sins and keep asking for forgiveness . you should give a full stop to the sins . and jesus is ready to forgive any sins you commit in this world . but dont continue with the sin after getting forgiveness from god
here is were most of us lack .if you want to lead a sinless life there comes the holy spirit . who keeps whispering in your heart when you commit mistake even in your thoughts .that is why everybody needs holy spirit in their life . to lead a holy life . that only takes you to heaven . no one can go to heaven except who has been baptised my water after knowing what is a sin and getting salvation that jesus shed his blood for me ( not child baptism ) then leading a sinless life which is pleasing to god , obey the words given in the bible , tell jesus to others
  #50  
Old Sep 18, '07, 10:16 am
jstew jstew is offline
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 28
Religion: Catholic
Smile Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 3, 2007

GOd Bless!! CHild Baptism is a whole other catagory than confession. Jesus instituted confession when he told the Apostles that whosever sins you hold are held bond and whose sins you forgive are forgiven. He gave this athority to none of His other followers!! Why would he give them the power to forgive and then not expect us to go to them to confess our sins????? IN the early Church, correct me if I am wrong, confessions were more public, sometimes in front of the congregation!!! The early CHurch fathers wrote of confession as a common pracitce. I believe it is our arrogance that drives us from the confessional, possibly fear. Reconciliation is one of the most grace filled sacraments but probably the least used or preached about. GO to confession if you haven't done so in a while. It is like a huge load off your chest!! In a society were we rationalize more and more sin as being ok or moving into the future, of course thousands of peopel think that confession is outdated!!
  #51  
Old Sep 18, '07, 10:24 am
jstew jstew is offline
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Join Date: September 17, 2007
Posts: 28
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 3, 2007

Hello Karl!!! I have heard you speak in Vandalia IL. I want to get into Apologetics and have read many books but know that I need a formal theological education. I enjoy speaking to groups and reading abou our Faith and it truths and beginings. How can I get into this ministry. I have many ideas of what I want to do and feel that God is calling me to defend our faith, but I need advice on how to get started!!

God Bless you and your ministry!!
JS
  #52  
Old Sep 18, '07, 11:41 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
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Join Date: August 3, 2004
Posts: 1,078
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Karl Keating's E-Letter of July 3, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstew View Post
Hello Karl!!! I have heard you speak in Vandalia IL. I want to get into Apologetics and have read many books but know that I need a formal theological education. I enjoy speaking to groups and reading abou our Faith and it truths and beginings. How can I get into this ministry. I have many ideas of what I want to do and feel that God is calling me to defend our faith, but I need advice on how to get started!!

God Bless you and your ministry!!
JS
May I suggest you go the the Catholic Forums section on apologetics and make your request there. Don't limit it to Karl only as he only has so much time. You'll get lots of advice and maybe even offers there. Good luck and God Bless.
  #53  
Old Sep 18, '07, 5:40 pm
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Join Date: October 17, 2004
Posts: 9,396
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Confession! "now let's HEAR your sin!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDWARDANBU View Post
hello friends,
when jesus is there to hear and forgive your sins why to confess to a man . jesus is always waiting for you . but remeber one thing dont keep continuing with your sins and keep asking for forgiveness . you should give a full stop to the sins . and jesus is ready to forgive any sins you commit in this world . but dont continue with the sin after getting forgiveness from god
here is were most of us lack .if you want to lead a sinless life there comes the holy spirit . who keeps whispering in your heart when you commit mistake even in your thoughts .that is why everybody needs holy spirit in their life . to lead a holy life . that only takes you to heaven . no one can go to heaven except who has been baptised my water after knowing what is a sin and getting salvation that jesus shed his blood for me ( not child baptism ) then leading a sinless life which is pleasing to god , obey the words given in the bible , tell jesus to others
How, precisely, do you know what you assert is true?
__________________
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
  #54  
Old Sep 19, '07, 11:54 pm
viper78912 viper78912 is offline
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Join Date: November 10, 2006
Posts: 90
Default Re: Confession! "now let's HEAR your sin!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post
How, precisely, do you know what you assert is true?
“Though we are faithless,
He Remains faithful,
For He cannot disown Himself.”(2 Timothy2.13).

Is Baptism necessary for salvation?



Answer: Baptismal regeneration is the belief that a person must be
baptized in order to be saved. It is our contention that baptism is an
important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject
baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and
every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates
a believer's identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.
Romans 6:3-4 declares, 'Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized
into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried
with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was
raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a
new life.?' The action of being immersed in the water illustrates being
buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures
Christ's resurrection.

Anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ as being required for
salvation is a works-based salvation. To add ANYTHING to the Gospel is to
say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our
salvation. To say that we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say
that we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in
order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our
sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is
appropriated to our "account" by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31;
Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience
after salvation, but cannot a requirement for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a necessary
requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us
that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9;
Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses.
Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who
converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify
conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who
refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the
minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized
believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet
was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not
have true faith.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, "I am
thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" (1Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, "For Christ did not send me to
baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest
the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (1 Corinthians 1:17)?
Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that
plagued the Corinthians church. However, how could Paul possibly say,"I
am thankful that I did not baptize??" or "For Christ did not send me to
baptize" if baptism was necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary
for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, 'I am thankful that you
were not saved' and 'For Christ did not send me to save'? That would be
an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul
gives a detailed outline of what he considers the Gospel (1 Corinthians
15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a
requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the Gospel lack a
mentioning of baptism?

[baptism-Acts-2-38.html] Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary
for salvation?

[baptism-Mark-16-16.html] Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary
for salvation?

[baptism-1Peter-3-21.html] Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is
necessary for salvation?

[baptism-John-3-5.]
Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for
salvation?
what do you think?
denis
  #55  
Old Sep 20, '07, 8:05 am
qmvsimp qmvsimp is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: August 3, 2004
Posts: 1,078
Religion: Catholic
Default Re: Confession! "now let's HEAR your sin!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by viper78912 View Post
“Though we are faithless,
He Remains faithful,
For He cannot disown Himself.”(2 Timothy2.13).

Is Baptism necessary for salvation?



Answer: Baptismal regeneration is the belief that a person must be
baptized in order to be saved. It is our contention that baptism is an
important step of obedience for a Christian, but we adamantly reject
baptism as being required for salvation. We strongly believe that each and
every Christian should be water baptized by immersion. Baptism illustrates
a believer's identification with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.
Romans 6:3-4 declares, 'Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized
into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were therefore buried
with Him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was
raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a
new life.?' The action of being immersed in the water illustrates being
buried with Christ. The action of coming out of the water pictures
Christ's resurrection.

Anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ as being required for
salvation is a works-based salvation. To add ANYTHING to the Gospel is to
say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our
salvation. To say that we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say
that we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in
order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our
sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus' payment for our sins is
appropriated to our "account" by faith alone (John 3:16; Acts 16:31;
Ephesians 2:8-9). Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience
after salvation, but cannot a requirement for salvation.

Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a necessary
requirement for salvation. However, since the Bible so clearly tells us
that salvation is received by faith alone (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8-9;
Titus 3:5), there must be a different interpretation of those verses.
Scripture does not contradict Scripture. In Bible times, a person who
converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify
conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public. Those who
refused to be baptized were saying they did not truly believe. So, in the
minds of the apostles and early disciples, the idea of an un-baptized
believer was unheard of. When a person claimed to believe in Christ, yet
was ashamed to proclaim his faith in public, it indicated that he did not
have true faith.

If baptism is necessary for salvation, why would Paul have said, "I am
thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius" (1Corinthians 1:14)? Why would he have said, "For Christ did not send me to
baptize, but to preach the gospel - not with words of human wisdom, lest
the cross of Christ be emptied of its power" (1 Corinthians 1:17)?
Granted, in this passage Paul is arguing against the divisions that
plagued the Corinthians church. However, how could Paul possibly say,"I
am thankful that I did not baptize??" or "For Christ did not send me to
baptize" if baptism was necessary for salvation? If baptism is necessary
for salvation, Paul would literally be saying, 'I am thankful that you
were not saved' and 'For Christ did not send me to save'? That would be
an unbelievably ridiculous statement for Paul to make. Further, when Paul
gives a detailed outline of what he considers the Gospel (1 Corinthians
15:1-8), why does he neglect to mention baptism? If baptism is a
requirement for salvation, how could any presentation of the Gospel lack a
mentioning of baptism?

[baptism-Acts-2-38.html] Does Acts 2:38 teach that baptism is necessary
for salvation?

[baptism-Mark-16-16.html] Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary
for salvation?

[baptism-1Peter-3-21.html] Does 1 Peter 3:21 teach that baptism is
necessary for salvation?

[baptism-John-3-5.]
Does John 3:5 teach that baptism is necessary for
salvation?
what do you think?
denis
It would have been helpful if you had read the discussion leading up to this post. Or if you did, if you had refuted the answers in them. I have a question for you: If I believe that Jesus is the Son of God who died for the sins of mankind, but I worship Satan, will I be saved?
 

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