Bishop Bruskewitz and the SSPX - Page 12

Walking_Home · #**166** Jul 11, '07, 9:14 am

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Originally Posted by BobCatholic

In the case of the SSPX, they agreed with the excommunication by not appealing it. They didn't agree with the Bishop, so they just became another group of dissenters.

That's what happens when mirror worshipping disobedience works against them

If the SSPX would only accept the authority of the Catholic Church.....

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That would depend ----if the excommunication was justified that it could apply. As I said prior---following in Bishop Bruskewitz footsteps----your bishop can excommunicate you, my bishop can excommunicate me---for just associating with the protestants.

BobCatholic · #**167** Jul 11, '07, 9:14 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Home

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It really would not matter---at that time we were all one Church.

But it does.

Matthew 16:18 was definitely upheld.

BobCatholic · #**168** Jul 11, '07, 9:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Home

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That would depend ----if the excommunication was justified that it could apply. As I said prior---following in Bishop Bruskewitz footsteps----your bishop can excommunicate you, my bishop can excommunicate me---for just associating with the protestants.

If we don't appeal, we're still excommunicated.
If we don't confess and do penance, we're still excommunicated.

So, since I don't want to remain excommunicated, I'm definitely going to appeal or confess and do penance.

The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Not the mirror.

Walking_Home · #**169** Jul 11, '07, 9:19 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobCatholic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
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It really would not matter---at that time we were all one Church.

But it does.

Matthew 16:18 was definitely upheld.

BobCatholic Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
During the Arian heresy---approx. 70-80% of the Church fell into heresy. It was the 20-30% that did not go heretic---that our Lord's promise applied to.

I wonder if anyone would mention that the See of Rome was one of the few major sees that did not go into heresy?
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I am not sure what you are aiming at. During the Arian heresy we were one Church. The Arian heresy being concentrated in some areas---still affected the whole Church.

BobCatholic · #**170** Jul 11, '07, 9:24 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walking_Home

I am not sure what you are aiming at.

My point is that the gates of hell did not prevail over the Church.

Though the vast majority of the Church was in heresy.

Just as then, just as now.

The gates of hell will not prevail over the Church.

Even if the diSSenters say so.

Walking_Home · #**171** Jul 11, '07, 9:31 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobCatholic

If we don't appeal, we're still excommunicated.
If we don't confess and do penance, we're still excommunicated.

So, since I don't want to remain excommunicated, I'm definitely going to appeal or confess and do penance.

The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. Not the mirror.

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Yes She is---that is why a bishop should not abuse his authority. But I must say---it was an ingenious move by the bishop to lump the SSPX with groups like Call to Action.

I do not believe my bishop would abuse his authority and excommunicate me---for associating with my protestant relatives

Walking_Home · #**172** Jul 11, '07, 9:50 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobCatholic

My point is that the gates of hell did not prevail over the Church.

Though the vast majority of the Church was in heresy.

Just as then, just as now.

The gates of hell will not prevail over the Church.

Even if the diSSenters say so.

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That was my point to begin with. Even if 99.99% (this would include laity, priests, bishops) would go into heresy--the gates of hell would not prevail because of the .01% who didn't.

Bennie P · #**173** Jul 11, '07, 9:53 am

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Originally Posted by Walking_Home

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That was my point to begin with. Even if 99.99% (this would include laity, priests, bishops) would go into heresy--the gates of hell would not prevail because of the .01% who didn't.

Who do you claim is the .01%? SSPX? if so then your claim is that the Gates of Hell have overcome the See of Rome and thus the Church has not been able to stand as Christ promised.

Walking_Home · #**174** Jul 11, '07, 10:05 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennie P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home
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That was my point to begin with. Even if 99.99% (this would include laity, priests, bishops) would go into heresy--the gates of hell would not prevail because of the .01% who didn't.

Who do you claim is the .01%? SSPX? if so then your claim is that the Gates of Hell have overcome the See of Rome and thus the Church has not been able to stand as Christ promised.

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I am just claiming a fact. Our Lord's promise does not mean the majority of the Church cannot follow heresy. That was my initial response to you. It has happened before--it can happen again.

BobCatholic · #**175** Jul 11, '07, 3:06 pm

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Originally Posted by Walking_Home

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I am just claiming a fact. Our Lord's promise does not mean the majority of the Church cannot follow heresy. That was my initial response to you. It has happened before--it can happen again.

You didn't answer the question.

MariaGorettiGrl · #**176** Jul 11, '07, 3:27 pm

Why on earth would God instigate the papacy only to let it lead 99.99% of the church into error. It would be better to let people struggle around with the meaning of things than to put into power a leader who would screw up the entire church!

For that matter, why not use the Holy Spirit to move the Cardinals to elect Lefabvre the pope?

Why would God just abandon the papacy?

KofC660 · #**177** Jul 11, '07, 3:33 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariaGorettiGrl

Why on earth would God instigate the papacy only to let it lead 99.99% of the church into error. It would be better to let people struggle around with the meaning of things than to put into power a leader who would screw up the entire church!

For that matter, why not use the Holy Spirit to move the Cardinals to elect Lefabvre the pope?

Why would God just abandon the papacy?

Because, in the end, the Church will triumph.

There have been popes in the past that have led the Church into error, so it can, and HAS happened.

Pax et Caritas · #**178** Jul 11, '07, 4:02 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennie P

Who do you claim is the .01%? SSPX?

I'll answer for him: The .01% are those who still believe what the Church has always taught and still reject the errors condemned by the Church.

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if so then your claim is that the Gates of Hell have overcome the See of Rome and thus the Church has not been able to stand as Christ promised.

Jesus did not say "all Popes will be perfect and non will ever teach anything false". He said the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.

When a person is elected Pope he does not loose his free will, nor does the Holy Ghost take possession of him to prevent him from falling into error. He can still fall into error just as any other Catholic can. Papal Infallibility only applies when the Pope is defining a doctrine. Outside of that a Pope can err. Popes have taught error in the past: John XXIII taught an error publicly before renouncing it on his death bed; and Pope honorious was condemned by a future Pope as a heretic (see encyclopedia at www.newadvent.org). John Paul II approved a mass as being valid that contained no words of consecration; he issued an indult for a Mass that had never been abrogated (an indult is a special permission to do what is not allowed).

Our Lord promised that the gates of hell will not prevail and they haven't. We can see that things are beginning to turn around now. It appears that the past 40 years of apostasy are coming to a close. This or that Pope may deviate from the faith, but the Church will survive.

MariaGorettiGrl · #**179** Jul 11, '07, 4:45 pm

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Because, in the end, the Church will triumph.

There have been popes in the past that have led the Church into error, so it can, and HAS happened.

So why on Earth did God start the papacy?!? I don't understand why God made the papacy if now the Church has to "triumph" over it.

Also, why is it that every pope is an untrustworthy sinner but Bishop Lefabvre was always 100% correct? Isn't this just replacing one leader with another?

KofC660 · #**180** Jul 11, '07, 4:48 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariaGorettiGrl

So why on Earth did God start the papacy?!? I don't understand why God made the papacy if now the Church has to "triumph" over it.

Also, why is it that every pope is an untrustworthy sinner but Bishop Lefabvre was always 100% correct? Isn't this just replacing one leader with another?

Don't mistake me for someone that believes every pope is an untrustworthy sinner and Bishop Lefebvre is always 100% correct.

I've never even been to a SSPX chapel!