Is the MP motivation to form a hybrid mass?

[AlexV]

Here we go again......

[JKirkLVNV]

Indeed.

[Aramis]

Originally Posted by TantumErgo90

The Missal of 1962 will always be celebrated according the the Missal (calendar and rubrics) of 1962 as the extraoridnary form as guarenteed by Summorum Pontificum.

Sorry, but you are implying the church can't abrogate it; they can, they just have not.

His Holiness could, quite easily, and with a stroke of the pen, alter the '62 missal, and create the "'07 extraordinary form missal" or (and more likely) the '10 or '11 extraordinary form missal, to make changes needed for the good of the church.

He could, legitimately, then ban the '62.

[TantumErgo90]

Aramis, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that the Church couldn't abrogate the 1962 Missal. She most certaintly can. But, I find it very unlikely. I think the only changes that we will see with the 1962 missal is the addition of new saints and prefaces. One of the big issues that Summorum Pontificum dealt with was continuity. The Holy Father's point was that something good (1962 missal) from the past (pre-vatican II) couldn't be called bad in the future. I doubt that the Holy Father will change any of the rubrics, texts, ect. of the missal of 1962. Faithful are attached to the 1962 missal, he wants to provide something for all of the faithful, if the 1962 missal keeps people in the fold, then he will allow it. I doubt he would injure relations between the faithful attached to the 1962 missal. Such as dumbing it down like the 1965 changes. According to Summorum Pontificum, the 1962 missal (ruberics, calendar, readings) will be used now as before, and in the future.

[TantumErgo90]

Also, if the TLM is changed, I fear it will lead to a dumbing down of some of its cerimonies. Have you ever seen a Pontifical Solemn High Mass? Well, I don't want any of those ceremonies and traditions to go. In the 1500 years the TLM was used in commonly, there was very little change to the missal. If Pope St. Pius V was to view the missal of 1962 he would think it was his origional, with a few adaptions. But I am afraid that what we will call the Extraordinary Use of the future will look like a semi-Novus Ordo. I don't want the grandure of the Pontifical Solemn High Mass to dissapear, or the beauty of 1962 missal with all of its symbolism and rituals. I think that the Holy Father realizes this and doesn't want a reform of the 1962 missal. If you read Summorum Pontificum, the Holy Father clearly intends that the 1962 will be used and he doesn't intend a reform of the 1962 missal. He is concerned with continuity, internal healing, etc. He made a point to say the 1962 missal was never abrogated therefore I have to think he doesn't intend the 1962 missal to change.

[obadiah]

Originally Posted by TantumErgo90

Also, if the TLM is changed, I fear it will lead to a dumbing down of some of its cerimonies. Have you ever seen a Pontifical Solemn High Mass? Well, I don't want any of those ceremonies and traditions to go. In the 1500 years the TLM was used in commonly, there was very little change to the missal. If Pope St. Pius V was to view the missal of 1962 he would think it was his origional, with a few adaptions. But I am afraid that what we will call the Extraordinary Use of the future will look like a semi-Novus Ordo. I don't want the grandure of the Pontifical Solemn High Mass to dissapear, or the beauty of 1962 missal with all of its symbolism and rituals. I think that the Holy Father realizes this and doesn't want a reform of the 1962 missal. If you read Summorum Pontificum, the Holy Father clearly intends that the 1962 will be used and he doesn't intend a reform of the 1962 missal. He is concerned with continuity, internal healing, etc. He made a point to say the 1962 missal was never abrogated therefore I have to think he doesn't intend the 1962 missal to change.

I totally agree with you 100%. It truly would be a loss of the highest order. That is why the Orthodox have been so possessive of our Liturgy and Traditions.
I have seen quite a few Pontifical solemn High Masses on the Internet, Very beautiful, I've also seen a couple of Ambrosian Masses. The Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church is very Grand and Glorious, and deserves to be kept INTACT.

[Struggling]

The Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church is very Grand and Glorious, and deserves to be kept INTACT.

Then we should hope someday to be allowed to go back to 1954, especially in the Breviary...but also for Holy Week. 1955 was the beginning of cuts, reductions, and more cuts. Not just tweakings, but major excisions.

Also, perhaps a Psalter not so drastically revised as Pius X did. The rubrics needed to be altered so that the Sunday psalms didn't keep repeating on feasts, and Matins being made into divisi to shorten it while adding variety to the Little Hours was good (there IS such a thing as too much psalm 118)...but otherwise it was a little much. I have a schema laid out of a much more moderate revision of the old Roman psalter.

[obadiah]

Originally Posted by Struggling

Then we should hope someday to be allowed to go back to 1954, especially in the Breviary...but also for Holy Week. 1955 was the beginning of cuts, reductions, and more cuts. Not just tweakings, but major excisions.

Also, perhaps a Psalter not so drastically revised as Pius X did. The rubrics needed to be altered so that the Sunday psalms didn't keep repeating on feasts, and Matins being made into divisi to shorten it while adding variety to the Little Hours was good (there IS such a thing as too much psalm 118)...but otherwise it was a little much. I have a schema laid out of a much more moderate revision of the old Roman psalter.

In our Tradition, we chant the Psalms every evening, I think 3 sections of 3 psalms at vespers, going through the entire book in about two or three months. That's counting out Sat. and Sun.
At Sunday matins, we chant the same 6 Psalms every Sunday.
It's a lot of work but somebody has to do it.

[Struggling]

It's a lot of work but somebody has to do it.

Still, that sounds like nothing compared to the traditional Roman Office (which is essentially a monastic office, even for the secular clergy).

9 psalms at Matins
5 at Vespers and Lauds
3 at Prime, Terce, Sext, None, and Compline each.

Every day, 34 psalms or psalm divisi. All 150 in a week.

The psalter before Pius X had:

12 psalms at Matins (18 on Sunday)
8 at Lauds
5 at Vespers
4 each at Prime and Compline
3 each at Terce, Sext, and None
No divisi except psalm 118

Of course, that psalter had a lot of repetition. Terce, Sext, and None were always the divisi of 118. Lauds always had 148, 149, and 150, and Compline was the same every night, etc...

[AlexV]

It does little to foster a love of the liturgy to start talking about how popes can just flick their pen and erase it.

[obadiah]

Originally Posted by Struggling

Still, that sounds like nothing compared to the traditional Roman Office (which is essentially a monastic office, even for the secular clergy).

9 psalms at Matins
5 at Vespers and Lauds
3 at Prime, Terce, Sext, None, and Compline each.

Every day, 34 psalms or psalm divisi. All 150 in a week.

The psalter before Pius X had:

12 psalms at Matins (18 on Sunday)
8 at Lauds
5 at Vespers
4 each at Prime and Compline
3 each at Terce, Sext, and None
No divisi except psalm 118

Of course, that psalter had a lot of repetition. Terce, Sext, and None were always the divisi of 118. Lauds always had 148, 149, and 150, and Compline was the same every night, etc...

I think our monastics do the same thing, I don't go to daily vespers or matins, just Sat. Vespers, and Sunday services, so I don't know the complete schedule.