In a perfect world...

PatienceAndLove · #1 Jul 30, '07, 11:30 am

Now that MP:SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM is released, and implementation begins in September...

In your opinion, what will MP: SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM do for the Church. Will we return to the Mass as prescribed by V2 (Latin with the Vernacular mixed in)? Totally Latin/TLM? Nothing? Another Schism regarding Latin/TLM v Vernacular/Spirit of V2?

And in a perfect world, what would the MP:SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM accomplish?

JimR-OCDS · #2 Jul 30, '07, 1:44 pm

My guess is that little or nothing will happen, especially in the US.

Bishops will for the most part, ignore it.

The key for the Bishops is in the document;

Quote:

Art. 5 § 1 In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition, the pastor should willingly accept their requests to celebrate the Mass according to the rite of the Roman Missal published in 1962, and ensure that the welfare of these faithful harmonises with the ordinary pastoral care of the parish, under the guidance of the bishop in accordance with canon 392, avoiding discord and favouring the unity of the whole Church.

The Bishop can set up guidelines for the a pastor where he has to have a significant percentage of parishioners who want the Latin Mass, and are willing to raise the funds to supply new lectionaries, missals, and hymnals and provide support in the way of choir, trained altar servers, etc.

Parishioners will not just be able to go up to their pastor and say we want it. There's more to it than that.

Jim

OutinChgoburbs · #3 Jul 30, '07, 3:35 pm

Well, this is what it's doing on CAF, a microcosm of the Church (after all, it's world-wide):
http://forums.catholic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=115
Some places, it will catch on. Some places, it won't. Some places already have EU Masses and may or may not expand that according to the folks in the pews.

Meanwhile, it seems to me that people will bicker about anything from how many EU Masses have to be offered in a week, to whether parishes should run out and buy 1962 missals to stuff in the hymnal racks and "old school" vestments they consider necessary to celebrate an EU, to the ever-popular "veil" issue on the heads of women.

**the phoenix** · #4 Jul 30, '07, 4:29 pm

Why not .....

Latin for those who want it ...
Vernacular for those who want it ...
Reverence for all?

Or is that too simple?

~~ the phoenix

OutinChgoburbs · #5 Jul 30, '07, 4:31 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phoenix

Why not .....

Latin for those who want it ...
Vernacular for those who want it ...
Reverence for all?

Or is that too simple?

~~ the phoenix

I think so. However, others do not agree.

AlexV · #6 Jul 30, '07, 4:35 pm

NO numbers game has been set up by the Motu. The laity can indeed "just go up" and ask the pastor, and he can indeed "just" grant his approval. The bishop cannot stop him.

PatienceAndLove · #7 Jul 30, '07, 6:33 pm

So... in a perfect world, what do you want to see?

Phoenix answered... I want other ones!

ComradeAndrei · #8 Jul 30, '07, 6:44 pm

In a "perfect" world, we would have a massive increase in celebration of the TLM, bishops would be enthusiastic in their support and the NO would be roundly traditionalized. The SSPX would regularize their situation with Rome, the Eastern Orthodox would start to join us after they see we are serious about liturgy again. All of the heretics and schismatics in the Church would either see the light or leave. Traditional Anglicans would join the Church in droves.

paramedicgirl · #9 Jul 30, '07, 6:45 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phoenix

Why not .....

Latin for those who want it ...
Vernacular for those who want it ...
Reverence for all?

Or is that too simple?

~~ the phoenix

Well, the title of the thread is a perfect world.

steve green 2 · #10 Jul 30, '07, 6:49 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComradeAndrei

In a "perfect" world, we would have a massive increase in celebration of the TLM, bishops would be enthusiastic in their support and the NO would be roundly traditionalized. The SSPX would regularize their situation with Rome, the Eastern Orthodox would start to join us after they see we are serious about liturgy again. All of the heretics and schismatics in the Church would either see the light or leave. Traditional Anglicans would join the Church in droves.

One correction: the NO would then fade away to the distant sunset !

ComradeAndrei · #11 Jul 30, '07, 6:51 pm

True, I wasn't thinking "perfect world" completely.

Rabbititus · #12 Jul 31, '07, 11:54 am

In a perfect world we'll eventually have one Roman Rite that is fully in keeping with Catholic liturgical tradition and yet also addresses all of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. We will once again have organic liturgy.

PatienceAndLove · #13 Jul 31, '07, 12:05 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabbititus

In a perfect world we'll eventually have one Roman Rite that is fully in keeping with Catholic liturgical tradition and yet also addresses all of the reforms of the Second Vatican Council. We will once again have organic liturgy.

What do you envision this organic liturgy as?

JKirkLVNV · #14 Jul 31, '07, 4:09 pm

In my perfect world:

The TLM and the Pauline Masses would be celebrated in each parish each Sunday.

So, Comrade and Steve, we wouldn't have the NO at all? Those of us who were brought into the Church with this Mass would be what, "the heretics and schismatics" who would "see the light or leave?"

Perhaps you could clarify.

Swiss Guard · #15 Jul 31, '07, 8:56 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV

In my perfect world:

The TLM and the Pauline Masses would be celebrated in each parish each Sunday.

So, Comrade and Steve, we wouldn't have the NO at all? Those of us who were brought into the Church with this Mass would be what, "the heretics and schismatics" who would "see the light or leave?"

Perhaps you could clarify.

Well, I can't answer for them, but you would not be a heretic or a schismatic under the circumstances described by the posters you mentioned above.

Remember, those rites that St. Pius V invalidated with the Papal Bull Quo Primum in 1570 were perfectly valid before its promulgation.

I'm not saying the Pauline rite will be invalidated (it won't), I'm only saying that if it was invalidated you wouldn't be outside the Church because at the time you attended that rite it was valid and licit.