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  #1  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:08 pm
malachi_a_serva malachi_a_serva is offline
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Default Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Now I did a search for previous threads and read them in this regard.

My question is..... why honor "Peter"?

Isn't Jesus the whole reason? Why deviate? I understand "Peter" was (argueably) the first "Pope". But isn't Christ's upright cross more significant, more important than Peter's upsidedown cross?

http://www.ewtn.com/holyland2000/gallery/gallery6.asp#
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  #2  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:18 pm
Gamera Gamera is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Because we are to give honor to those to whom honor is due, (see Romans 13:7).
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  #3  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:20 pm
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Cool Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Did it never occur to you that that is some artist's way of honoring the Pope and nothing more?

It's art.

If you read the other threads then why bother us with this one?

It's really simple...stop looking for conspiracies and demons behind every bush.
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  #4  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:28 pm
malachi_a_serva malachi_a_serva is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Believe me I am not.

This intrigued me. I did a search. Read the threads and came up that the reason for the upside down cross was because Peter was crucified upside down.

But we are Christians.

Not Peterians.

So why usurp the sacrafice that gave us redemption?
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  #5  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:30 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

I'm curious, what is the Pope holding in his hands in most of those pictures? Isn't it the Cross of Christ?
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  #6  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:32 pm
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NotWorthy NotWorthy is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

The Upside down cross on the back of Peter's Chair. Doesn't the Pope teach from the Chair of Peter, just as the Pharisees taught from the Chair of Moses? Were they placing Moses works above God's?
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  #7  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:33 pm
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Cool Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Quote:
Originally Posted by malachi_a_serva View Post
Believe me I am not.

This intrigued me. I did a search. Read the threads and came up that the reason for the upside down cross was because Peter was crucified upside down.

But we are Christians.

Not Peterians.

So why usurp the sacrafice that gave us redemption?
Where do you see any usurpation? You'd better be able to back that up with some serious proofs buddy because I think you're trying to be slick.

I think you're just baiting and bashing in your own special way.

It's been explained...that's all there is to it.
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  #8  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:34 pm
bankerdavid bankerdavid is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Quote:
Originally Posted by malachi_a_serva View Post
Now I did a search for previous threads and read them in this regard.

My question is..... why honor "Peter"?

Isn't Jesus the whole reason? Why deviate? I understand "Peter" was (argueably) the first "Pope". But isn't Christ's upright cross more significant, more important than Peter's upsidedown cross?

http://www.ewtn.com/holyland2000/gallery/gallery6.asp#

Nothing arguable about it.
Quote:
13
When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi 9 he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?"
14
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15
He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
16
Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
17
Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter (rock), and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Regarding the chair, it is the Chair of St. Peter, which is why the cross is upside down, because Peter was crucified upside down. Any importance of Peter, also, directs us to the importance of Jesus, our Lord.
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  #9  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:35 pm
Socio_Momma Socio_Momma is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

The Pope is the successor of St. Peter, the Vicar of Christ and is the servant of Christ's. This inverted cross is to be a humbling symbol. Tradition has taught us that St. Peter was crucified upside down (at his own request) because he believed that he was unworthy to die the same way as the Lord. All Popes should hold that humility of St. Peter to heart in his death & remember that one should be willing to die for the Lord (really all Christians should remember this).

The plain inverted cross is a symbol for St. Peter dating from Early Christianity. A crucifix or any image of the Lord should never be placed upside down as a sign of disrespect.
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Last edited by Socio_Momma; Aug 3, '07 at 1:47 pm.
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  #10  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:36 pm
Gamera Gamera is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

A general observation --- why do non-Catholics devote so much time to analyzing our every move? I certainly don't spend time asking Wesleyans "Wny do you do this? How can you explain that?"
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  #11  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:36 pm
malachi_a_serva malachi_a_serva is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotWorthy View Post
I'm curious, what is the Pope holding in his hands in most of those pictures? Isn't it the Cross of Christ?
Hi NotWorthy and thank you for your response. Unfortunately, that "bent cross" has issues as well from a non-catholic perspective. I believe you posted on one of the threads.....indicating that it was bent as it was as Christ had the world's sins on him (not sure if that was you). Just that that bent cross thing is kind of creepy in itself (IMHO).
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  #12  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:37 pm
Inman Inman is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

The reason Peter was crucified that way was because he felt he was unworthy to be die the way Jesus did. By including that as symbol, it reiterates the Pope role as a servant of Jesus.
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  #13  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Quote:
Originally Posted by malachi_a_serva View Post
Hi NotWorthy and thank you for your response. Unfortunately, that "bent cross" has issues as well from a non-catholic perspective. I believe you posted on one of the threads.....indicating that it was bent as it was as Christ had the world's sins on him (not sure if that was you). Just that that bent cross thing is kind of creepy in itself (IMHO).
No, it was not me, but that bent Cross is simply Beautiful!!!

I think it demonstrates Jesus' humanity in a way the typical Crucifix doesn't. I know, I know, it's just me and my own opinion, but I do so love that bent Cross.
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  #14  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:40 pm
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Quote:
This intrigued me. I did a search. Read the threads and came up that the reason for the upside down cross was because Peter was crucified upside down.

But we are Christians.

Not Peterians.

So why usurp the sacrafice that gave us redemption?

The upside down cross is on the back of The Chair of St. Peter, and in depictions of St. Peter being crucified (which you only see on St. Peter's Holy Cards or in stained glass windows featuring St. Peter's crucifiction.)

The Crucifix with Christ upon it is found:
In the Pope's Hands
Around his Neck
Above every altar in every Catholic church (or it should be anyway)
Around the necks of our priests and bishops,
We, the Laity, wear it around our neck
It's above our beds and home shrines
In depictions of the Stations of the Cross
At the end of our Rosaries
On the cover of our Bibles
In paintings in our house

So how are we 'usurping' Christ's redemptive sacrifice by showing St. Peter's cross in a few places (specifically on the back of the Chair of St. Peter - the chair dedicated to him) when we have Crucifixes EVERYWHERE else?
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  #15  
Old Aug 3, '07, 1:40 pm
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lagin lagin is offline
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Default Re: Pope's upside-down cross on his chair....

Quote:
Originally Posted by malachi_a_serva View Post
Now I did a search for previous threads and read them in this regard.

My question is..... why honor "Peter"?

Isn't Jesus the whole reason? Why deviate? I understand "Peter" was (argueably) the first "Pope". But isn't Christ's upright cross more significant, more important than Peter's upsidedown cross?

http://www.ewtn.com/holyland2000/gallery/gallery6.asp#
This is just a thought; I could be wrong:

As I recall, Peter asked to be crucified upside down because he didn't believe he was worthy to be crucified in the exact same manner as Jesus. It was an supreme act of humility on Peter's part.

John Paul II, a legitimate successor of St. Peter, too, was a humble man. To me it seems fitting that this symbol of humility is used. To me it says, "Unworthy servant of the Lord and His people, though I am, I come to do Your will."
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