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  #1  
Old Aug 5, '07, 11:33 am
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

To: [email protected]
Subject: Question on Passover in John's Gospel

I tuned in to the first episode of the Gospel of John
on EWTN, and I look forward to all of your upcoming
programs.

Are you familiar with some controversy about whether
"the last supper" (a term not in scripture) was a
Passover meal? There is supposed to be something in
this gospel that contradicts the synoptics on this
issue.

I would appreciate any perspective you may have on
this.

=====================
SHE REPLIES

Yes, In John's Gospel Jesus dies at 3.00pm on Passover preparation Day at the same time as the lambs dies in the Temple. John is emphasising that Jesus is the PASSOVER LAMB himself, and therefore the fulfillment of the Scriptures.

Abraham had offered Isaac in sacrifice on the 14th day of Nisan at
3.00pm approximately 2,000 years previously and approximately one third of a mile away from Calvary. John wants you to remember this, for Jesus is the Promised Son and the true cause of our joy since he brought us Redemption.

According to John, Jesus was buried at sundown on the Friday, which was the beginning of Passover Day, which, in that year fell on the Sabbath. This made it the most solemn day that it could be for Israel. what John wants you to hear is that the Son of Man lay in the earth on this most solemn feast after the labour of redemption, just as God had rested on the sabbath after the labour of Creation. Therefore, this was Jesus' SABBATH, and explains why he refused to observe the sabbath of the Mosaic Law during His Ministry.

The question of a passover meal is just scholars being pedantic! It was JESUS' PASSOVER, not Moses' passover! The Jews at the time allowed people who had to make long journeys to either anticipare the passover or to celebrate it one month later.

God Bless

Frances
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  #2  
Old Aug 5, '07, 2:43 pm
maryj maryj is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

I could listen to her talk all day long. She is so knowledgeable, she has truly been given a great gift from God. Thanks for sharing.
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  #3  
Old Aug 6, '07, 12:48 pm
mdgspencer mdgspencer is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

I have heard too that there were two ways of dating passover then, and that John followed one while the other Gospels followed the other. This was 20 years ago though and I don't recall which book spoke of this.
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  #4  
Old Aug 6, '07, 1:48 pm
DailyBread DailyBread is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdgspencer View Post
I have heard too that there were two ways of dating passover then, and that John followed one while the other Gospels followed the other. This was 20 years ago though and I don't recall which book spoke of this.
I believe Benedict's new book, Jesus of Nazareth mentions this... but I do not have it in front of me to quote.
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  #5  
Old Aug 6, '07, 6:26 pm
Crumpy Crumpy is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

Quote:
Originally Posted by DailyBread View Post
I believe Benedict's new book, Jesus of Nazareth mentions this... but I do not have it in front of me to quote.
I'm on my third reading of Jesus of Nazareth. Yes, I seem to recall he mentions the same thing, that the observation of Passover was moveable, for practical reasons.

Quite frankly, I was in an argument with someone on these issues, and I said what Frances Hogan said, that it was Jesus' Passover, not Moses' Passover.
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  #6  
Old Aug 7, '07, 3:54 pm
Gottle of Geer Gottle of Geer is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumpy View Post
To: [email protected]
Subject: Question on Passover in John's Gospel

I tuned in to the first episode of the Gospel of John
on EWTN, and I look forward to all of your upcoming
programs.

Are you familiar with some controversy about whether
"the last supper" (a term not in scripture) was a
Passover meal? There is supposed to be something in
this gospel that contradicts the synoptics on this
issue.

I would appreciate any perspective you may have on
this.

=====================
SHE REPLIES

Yes, In John's Gospel Jesus dies at 3.00pm on Passover preparation Day at the same time as the lambs dies in the Temple. John is emphasising that Jesus is the PASSOVER LAMB himself, and therefore the fulfillment of the Scriptures.

Abraham had offered Isaac in sacrifice on the 14th day of Nisan at
3.00pm approximately 2,000 years previously and approximately one third of a mile away from Calvary. John wants you to remember this, for Jesus is the Promised Son and the true cause of our joy since he brought us Redemption.

According to John, Jesus was buried at sundown on the Friday, which was the beginning of Passover Day, which, in that year fell on the Sabbath. This made it the most solemn day that it could be for Israel. what John wants you to hear is that the Son of Man lay in the earth on this most solemn feast after the labour of redemption, just as God had rested on the sabbath after the labour of Creation. Therefore, this was Jesus' SABBATH, and explains why he refused to observe the sabbath of the Mosaic Law during His Ministry.

The question of a passover meal is just scholars being pedantic! It was JESUS' PASSOVER, not Moses' passover! The Jews at the time allowed people who had to make long journeys to either anticipare the passover or to celebrate it one month later.

God Bless

Frances
## About this:
Quote:
The question of a passover meal is just scholars being pedantic!
On the contrary - far from being pedantic, the question arises from the texts. Callousness to the texts & to what they are saying is an ideal way to become insensitive to what they mean, & why they mean what they mean. Which leads directly to fundamentalism.

"The Eucharistic Words of Jesus" by Joachim Jeremias goes very fully into the question of what sort of meal the tradition behind the Gospel texts describes; every Christian with an interest in the NT, the Liturgy, the relation of Christianity to Judaism, the Passion narratives, or the Eucharist, should read it. Catholics in particular should find it of great value, given that Catholicism is connected with all those things.
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  #7  
Old Aug 8, '07, 5:34 pm
Nita Nita is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

The following is from Pope Benedict's Holy Thursday 2007 sermon from L'Osservatore 4/11/07 issue.
Quote:

...There is an apparent discrepancy in the Evangelists' accounts, between John's Gospel on the one hand, and what on the other Mathew, Mark and Luke tell us.

According to John, Jesus died on the Cross at the very moment when the Passover lambs were being sacrificed in the temple. The death of Jesus and the sacrifice of the lambs coincided. However, this means that He must have died the day before Easter and could not, therefore, have celebrated the Passover meal in person--this , at any rate, is how it appears.

According to the three Synoptic Gospels, the Last Supper of Jesus was instead a Passover meal into whose traditional form He integrated the innovation of the gift of His Body and Blood.

This contradiction seemed unsolvable until a few years ago. The majority of exegetes were of the opinion that John was reluctant to tell us the true historical date of Jesus' death, but rather chose a symbolic date to highlight the deeper truth: Jesus is the new true Lamb who poured out His Blood for us all.

In the meantime, the discovery of the [Dead Sea] Scrolls at Qumran has led us to a possible and convincing solution which, although is not yet accepted by everyone, is a highly plausible hypotheses. We can now say that John's account is historically precise.

Jesus truly shed His blood on the eve of Easter at the time of the immolation of the lambs.

In all likelihood, however, he celebrated the Passover with his disciples in accordance with the Qumran calendar, hence, at least one day earlier; He celebrated it without a lamb, like the Qumran community which did not recognize Herod's temple and was waiting for the new temple.

Consequently, Jesus celebrated the Passover without a lamb--no, not without a lamb: instead of the lamb He gave Himself, His Body and His Blood. Thus, he anticipated his death in a manner consistent with his words: "No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord" (Jn 10:18).

End quote.

(Bolding done by me.)

Nita
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  #8  
Old Aug 8, '07, 5:38 pm
zemi zemi is offline
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Default Re: EWTN's Francis Hogan responds to a question about John's Gospel

Thank you very much!
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