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  #1  
Old Jul 28, '07, 10:00 am
Catholic Opinion Catholic Opinion is offline
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Post Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

Last week I presented the Archbishop of Portland, His Excellency, Most Reverend John Vlanzy’s comments from a 2006 article about the older form of Mass. Click here for that entry.

Now His Excellency has presented his view of the Motu Proprio.

My emphases and comments.
Liturgical growth and progress in the Roman Missal
07/27/2007 Archbishop John Vlazny

Earlier this month Pope Benedict XVI published an Apostolic Letter under the title Summorum Pontificum. In so doing he was both allowing for and promoting a wider use of the liturgical books that were in force back in 1962. Some folks are fearful that the document takes away from the authority of the Second Vatican Council since one of its essential decisions, namely, the liturgical reform, seems to be called into question. [He begins with fear.]

The Holy Father says such a fear is unfounded. He reminds us that the missal published after the Council by Pope Paul VI and also republished in two subsequent editions by Pope John Paul II remains the normal form of the Eucharistic liturgy. The last version of the Roman Missal before the Council, published with the authority of Pope John XXIII in 1962, may also be used as an extraordinary form of the liturgy. The Holy Father states that it’s not correct to speak of these two versions of the Roman Missal as if they were “two rites.” He describes the situation as “a matter of a two-fold use of one and the same rite.”

Many people today are completely unfamiliar with the extraordinary form. Others for some time now have been insisting on their preference of the extraordinary form and bemoaning its relative unavailability in Catholic churches the world over. Frankly in our own country this has not been a major problem. But it has been a concern in some of the European nations like France, Germany and Switzerland. [This seems to be The Party Line. It’s only a few people. They are complainers. It really isn’t a problem in these here parts.]

Many of you recall that after the Council a movement away from Rome was led by a French prelate, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. One of his churches is located here in our own archdiocese in Veneta. Fidelity to the old missal became for this group an external mark of identity. But, as one of the Lefebvrite bishops pointed out shortly after the publication of Pope Benedict’s letter, the reasons for the break were at a deeper level, theological and even political. [Yes. This is a good reminder.] But the Lefebvrites were not the only ones [Yes, this is a very important point.] who remained attached to the earlier Roman missal of Pope John XXIII. The Pope’s intervention at this time is a genuine plea for the restoration of unity and a greater spirit of generosity on the part of all involved in making accommodations for those who see things differently. [The sort of spirit which John Paul II had called for in 1988 with his Motu Proprio "Ecclesia Dei adflicta".]

The new directives of the Holy Father take effect on September 14 of this year, the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross. Prior to that date priests were [still are!] required to seek the permission of the local bishop to use the extraordinary form, that is, the missal of Pope John XXIII. But from that day forward any priest of the Latin Church may celebrate the extraordinary form in a Mass without the people at any time except during the sacred Triduum. Pastors will decide when the extraordinary form will be used publicly in parishes where a stable group of the faithful gives evidence of their attachment to the preconciliar form. [YES! Excellent! He got this perfectly, without hedging. Pastors are the point men.]

Unfortunately, very few of our priests are suitably qualified for the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. That liturgical expression requires the use of Latin. Many of our younger clergy were not schooled in this beautiful language [YAY!] during their priestly formation as were those of us ordained in preconciliar times. Interestingly, one of my first assignments was to pursue a graduate degree in Latin [!!]so that I could teach the language to young seminarians. By the time I earned my degree, Latin was on the decline in the seminary curriculum. [Contrary, I believe to the norms for formation.]

Some days ago I received an inquiry from a parishioner about special directives for the use of the extraordinary form here in the Archdiocese of Portland. I see no need for further clarification since the papal document is quite explicit. [EXCELLENT! I think this may be the only N. American bishop who has stated this so clearly. Well done!] But the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy is holding a special meeting next month in order to offer bishops around the country some guidance in their responsibility of supervising the sacred liturgy now that there is to be a more generous availability of both forms. [Oh boy… do I smell trouble.]

Every bishop is the moderator of the liturgy in his own diocese. In that capacity he is required both to implement the universal norms of the church and to intervene to prevent abuses from arising with regard to liturgical celebrations in his diocese. That can be a ticklish situation at times because nowadays hierarchical directives are often suspect. [I like this fellow’s candor.] Fortunately here in our local church we have a wonderful liturgical commission and good pastors who collaborate faithfully with me in overseeing the full, conscious and active participation of our people in the sacred rites, as they are to be celebrated according to the liturgical norms. [So, there are probably no liturgical abuses in the Archdiocese of Portland.]

Two of my serious concerns about the pre-conciliar form were the more limited use of texts from Sacred Scripture, particularly the exclusion of Old Testament readings on Sundays, and the perception that the active participation of the people should remain internal and not external. [This is very interesting. The internal participation, or as I usually put it, "interior" participation, is the key to everything else. Ideally, interior participation come to fruition in outward, externalized participation. The ultimate expression of outward, external participation is the reception of Holy Communion. So, receptivity remains the fundamental dimension of both the interior and ourwardly expressed active participation of the faithful. The Archbishop is more than likely addressing the problem of nearly total silence on the part of many congregations at celebrations of the older form of Mass. Sometimes the hard core of the "silence school" will stare, or rather, glare down people who do make the responses. Making responses is good and proper and also one’s RIGHT, This is going to be a big issue after 14 September when the provisions of Summorum Pontificum kick in.] The Pope’s letter opens the door to the amelioration of these and other matters of concern.

Some will be worried about possible divisions and tensions that will occur in our parishes as a result of the call for a more generous response to the use of both forms. [Maybe I am missing something, but this probably means "more generous response to use the older form".] For all practical purposes, given the limited number of priests who could even respond to such requests, this is quite unlikely. The Roman missal of Paul VI remains the ordinary form of the Roman rite, not only because that is the directive of the church, but also because it has been widely received and greatly appreciated in Catholic parishes across the world.

The Pope was hopeful that eventually new saints and some of the new prayers from the post-conciliar missal could be integrated into the 1962 missal by his commission in Rome. [Yes, I am looking forward to directives on this point.]He acknowledges what many pastors have heard, namely, that the pre-conciliar form is attractive to many people because of its sacred nature. He offers this challenge with respect to the ordinary form: “the most sure guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence and in harmony with the liturgical directives.”

We pastors shall do our best to heed the Holy Father’s plea for generosity and unity in our liturgical celebrations. But a challenge far greater than providing Eucharistic celebrations in the extraordinary form is simply providing any Sunday Eucharistic celebration in every parish and mission each and every weekend, given the growth and diversity of our Catholic population. [I am sure the priest shortage is a major fact here. However, I notice he brings up "diversity". I am wondering if these means celebrating Masses in many different languages, give that Portland is such a mixed city. If that is the case, would not the Novus Ordo in LATIN be a great help to reduce the sheer number Masses in so many languages? People could have their own translations, but pray in common.] Please join the Holy Father and all his brother bishops in praying for “charity and pastoral prudence” in the implementation of his Apostolic Letter.

At the beginning of this article, I was afraid we were going to get just a warmed over version of His Excellency’s previous views (from 2006) and The Party Line, as I call it.

I was very pleasantly put at ease, and pleased as I read.

Frankly, I like the candor. He very clearly is accepting the Motu Proprio with the proper spirit and is communicating his wishes about it, without diminishing the practical problems.




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  #2  
Old Aug 3, '07, 11:01 pm
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catholic Opinion View Post
We pastors shall do our best to heed the Holy Father’s plea for generosity and unity in our liturgical celebrations. But a challenge far greater than providing Eucharistic celebrations in the extraordinary form is simply providing any Sunday Eucharistic celebration in every parish and mission each and every weekend, given the growth and diversity of our Catholic population. [I am sure the priest shortage is a major fact here. However, I notice he brings up "diversity". I am wondering if these means celebrating Masses in many different languages, give that Portland is such a mixed city. If that is the case, would not the Novus Ordo in LATIN be a great help to reduce the sheer number Masses in so many languages? People could have their own translations, but pray in common.]
I suspect that the Archbishop was speaking of at least two distinct populations we have in western Oregon, and in particular in the Portland area: the Hispanic population and the Vietnamese population. Both are fairly significant, with the Hispanic population the larger.

At Masses I have been to at the Cathedral (specifically the Mass prior to Easter for the Blessing of the Oils), of the three readings, one is in English, one in Spanish, and one in Vietnamese. The bishop is very fluent in Spanish.

It might be remembered that, for whatever arguments may be raised concerning the Eucharistic prayers in either Mass, one as opposed to the other, most people are not particularly sophisticated concerning the finer points, but all seem to respond very positively to the vernacular. Yes, it could be said in Latin, but almost no one understands Latin; each of the populations, however, do understand their own language, and many - I would suggest a majority - of the two populations mentioned understand English.
  #3  
Old Aug 3, '07, 11:13 pm
Catholig Catholig is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

Does anyone else HATE the term "Eucharist Celebration"? I mean - it's called the MASS!!! It's been called the MASS since times immemorable!

[Origin: bef. 900; ME masse, OE męsse < VL *messa, LL missa, formally fem. of L missus, ptp. of mittere to send, dismiss; perh. extracted from a phrase in the service with missa est and a fem. subject]

Catholig
  #4  
Old Aug 3, '07, 11:46 pm
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by Catholig View Post
Does anyone else HATE the term "Eucharist Celebration"? I mean - it's called the MASS!!! It's been called the MASS since times immemorable!

[Origin: bef. 900; ME masse, OE męsse < VL *messa, LL missa, formally fem. of L missus, ptp. of mittere to send, dismiss; perh. extracted from a phrase in the service with missa est and a fem. subject]

Catholig
Granted that I have only looked at the English translation of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the following paragraphs have the term "Eucharistic celebration" - 1408, 1326, 1333, 1178, 1345, 1109, 1348, 2042; so it seems that it is an acceptible term within the Magisterial teaching of the Church.
  #5  
Old Aug 4, '07, 4:17 am
AlexV AlexV is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

Oh sure, it's an "acceptable term". It's also used all too frequently in liturgist circles by those who relentlessly downplay the sacrificial nature of said "Eucharistic celebration". It's also ambiguous; it could refer to any number of other rites of adoration (e.g., benediction), or viaticum.
  #6  
Old Aug 4, '07, 6:49 pm
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by otjm View Post
I suspect that the Archbishop was speaking of at least two distinct populations we have in western Oregon, and in particular in the Portland area: the Hispanic population and the Vietnamese population. Both are fairly significant, with the Hispanic population the larger.

At Masses I have been to at the Cathedral (specifically the Mass prior to Easter for the Blessing of the Oils), of the three readings, one is in English, one in Spanish, and one in Vietnamese. The bishop is very fluent in Spanish.
No Russian? What about Chinese? Japanese?

Personally, I don't like the multi-lingual readings. I think the readings should be done in the vernacular, but I think one vernacular at a Mass is enough.

Quote:
It might be remembered that, for whatever arguments may be raised concerning the Eucharistic prayers in either Mass, one as opposed to the other, most people are not particularly sophisticated concerning the finer points, but all seem to respond very positively to the vernacular. Yes, it could be said in Latin, but almost no one understands Latin; each of the populations, however, do understand their own language, and many - I would suggest a majority - of the two populations mentioned understand English.
As the Holy Father said, "the faithful can be taught to recite the more common prayers in Latin, and also to sing parts of the liturgy to Gregorian chant."* I guess we all (regardless of our mother tongue) should work on that.

God bless,

Robert

*Sacramentum Caritatis (62)
  #7  
Old Aug 6, '07, 9:37 am
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
No Russian? What about Chinese? Japanese?
As far as I can tell, there are very few Japanese converts in Japan, and I would assume likewise very few of them as immigrants here in Oregon. As to the Chinese, I am not aware of any sizeable group here. Although we have a sizeable community of Chinese in the Portland area, it is not anywhere near as large as, say, San Francisco or Vancouver B.C. Russians tend to be Orthodox, and there is a large community south of Portland in the Woodburn area; having spoken with several about their group(s), I tend to get a little lost as there seems to be some off-shoots with which I am not familiar (they tend to refer to themselvs as Old Catholics, but I am nto sure if that is a translation issue); but again, no sizeable groups within the Archdiocese. There are, however, sizeable groups of both Vietnamese and Spanish, which is why we have the two readings. Both have noticeable numbers entering the Church at Easter, as is noted when the Catechumens and Candidates meet with the Archbishop on a Sunday prior to Easter.
  #8  
Old Aug 6, '07, 10:04 am
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

I was teasing otjm...although, I wouldn't characterize the Russians as "tend to be Orthodox." For some reason, most of the Russians up my way (and there are a lot of them) are Protestants...a large, very tight-knit group.

I personally don't like having readings in multiple languages, it's disjointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by otjm View Post
As far as I can tell, there are very few Japanese converts in Japan, and I would assume likewise very few of them as immigrants here in Oregon. As to the Chinese, I am not aware of any sizeable group here. Although we have a sizeable community of Chinese in the Portland area, it is not anywhere near as large as, say, San Francisco or Vancouver B.C. Russians tend to be Orthodox, and there is a large community south of Portland in the Woodburn area; having spoken with several about their group(s), I tend to get a little lost as there seems to be some off-shoots with which I am not familiar (they tend to refer to themselvs as Old Catholics, but I am nto sure if that is a translation issue); but again, no sizeable groups within the Archdiocese. There are, however, sizeable groups of both Vietnamese and Spanish, which is why we have the two readings. Both have noticeable numbers entering the Church at Easter, as is noted when the Catechumens and Candidates meet with the Archbishop on a Sunday prior to Easter.
  #9  
Old Aug 6, '07, 10:16 am
otjm otjm is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
I was teasing otjm...although, I wouldn't characterize the Russians as "tend to be Orthodox." For some reason, most of the Russians up my way (and there are a lot of them) are Protestants...a large, very tight-knit group.

I personally don't like having readings in multiple languages, it's disjointed.
There is a strong Ryussian Orthodox community in the Woodburn area, and as I have said, some of them refer to themsleves as something or ther than spcifically Orthodox. Woodburn is about 5 to 10 miles from Mt. Angel, where the diocesan seminary is, and there is a Russain Orthodox monk who lives on the seminary grounds,although not in community with the Benedictines.

And you may have been joking; I am sure there are other immigrants who are Catholic in the area; it is just that the two largest communities are Vietnamese and Hispanic.

I agree that it can seem disjointed; however, many of the immigrants are bilingual with English as a second language. I can understand the issue of using Latin where there are a larger number of different communities present; however, the large majority are either English speaking or reasonably fluent in English. If there is value in hearing the Mass in a language one understands, it seems soemwhat minimal of disruption to have one reading in Vietnamese, one in Spanish, and one in English. The alternative is to have all of the Mass in a language that no one can understand as a spoken language. Obviously, we have opted for the former.
  #10  
Old Aug 6, '07, 10:33 am
Catholig Catholig is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by otjm View Post
There is a strong Ryussian Orthodox community in the Woodburn area, and as I have said, some of them refer to themsleves as something or ther than spcifically Orthodox. Woodburn is about 5 to 10 miles from Mt. Angel, where the diocesan seminary is, and there is a Russain Orthodox monk who lives on the seminary grounds,although not in community with the Benedictines.

And you may have been joking; I am sure there are other immigrants who are Catholic in the area; it is just that the two largest communities are Vietnamese and Hispanic.

I agree that it can seem disjointed; however, many of the immigrants are bilingual with English as a second language. I can understand the issue of using Latin where there are a larger number of different communities present; however, the large majority are either English speaking or reasonably fluent in English. If there is value in hearing the Mass in a language one understands, it seems soemwhat minimal of disruption to have one reading in Vietnamese, one in Spanish, and one in English. The alternative is to have all of the Mass in a language that no one can understand as a spoken language. Obviously, we have opted for the former.
Obviously we can opt for the latter. Because if parts of the Mass (e.g. the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Creed, the Sanctus, the Agnus Dei) flit between several different languages someone will always be disadvantages - while if it is in Latin, everyone is on an equal playing field, and able to follow along in his own language using his own missal (unless of course he doesn't have a missal).

Catholig
  #11  
Old Aug 6, '07, 10:35 am
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

I was talking about the readings. If "many of the immigrants" have English as a second language, why have three different languages used in the readings at the cathedral? I don't have a problem with separate masses in a different language (though I hope the parishes that do this are finding ways to unify the groups in other ways, and helping to teach the non-English communicants English), but I don't care for a Mass with multiple vernaculars.

Regarding Latin, it is a unifying, Catholic language to be used universally (please look up the meaning of the word catholic ) for the common prayers and the Canon. It has nothing (or at least very little) to do with what language is currently "understood." I suspect that 90%+ of the Traditional Latin Masses that come after September 14, will have the readings and homily in the vernacular. We can all learn the basic prayers and Canon in Latin, and we have missals with Latin and vernacular side-by-side to aid everyone in that effort.

As I explained to my kids (one is very anti-Latin), we will study all of the prayers as a family to understand the meaning and pronunciation. I don't expect them to be fluent in Latin, and I'm not forcing my eldest teen to verbalize the responses. I do expect him to know what is being prayed and said. For those wishing to know Latin beyond "the basics," that option is always open...just as learning Hebrew and Greek are useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by otjm View Post
There is a strong Ryussian Orthodox community in the Woodburn area, and as I have said, some of them refer to themsleves as something or ther than spcifically Orthodox. Woodburn is about 5 to 10 miles from Mt. Angel, where the diocesan seminary is, and there is a Russain Orthodox monk who lives on the seminary grounds,although not in community with the Benedictines.

And you may have been joking; I am sure there are other immigrants who are Catholic in the area; it is just that the two largest communities are Vietnamese and Hispanic.

I agree that it can seem disjointed; however, many of the immigrants are bilingual with English as a second language. I can understand the issue of using Latin where there are a larger number of different communities present; however, the large majority are either English speaking or reasonably fluent in English. If there is value in hearing the Mass in a language one understands, it seems soemwhat minimal of disruption to have one reading in Vietnamese, one in Spanish, and one in English. The alternative is to have all of the Mass in a language that no one can understand as a spoken language. Obviously, we have opted for the former.
  #12  
Old Aug 6, '07, 10:43 am
Catholig Catholig is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
I was talking about the readings. If "many of the immigrants" have English as a second language, why have three different languages used in the readings at the cathedral? I don't have a problem with separate masses in a different language (though I hope the parishes that do this are finding ways to unify the groups in other ways, and helping to teach the non-English communicants English), but I don't care for a Mass with multiple vernaculars.
Yeah, I was going to talk about that (the readings), however I could see a TLM in which, during the homily, they read the Gospel and Epistle in two different vernaculars.

I have however been to a Mass in which the priest altered between two different vernacular (English & Spanish) to accommodate both group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
Regarding Latin, it is a unifying, Catholic language to be used universally (please look up the meaning of the word catholic ) for the common prayers and the Canon. It has nothing (or at least very little) to do with what language is currently "understood." I suspect that 90%+ of the Traditional Latin Masses that come after September 14, will have the readings and homily in the vernacular. We can all learn the basic prayers and Canon in Latin, and we have missals with Latin and vernacular side-by-side to aid everyone in that effort.
It'd be really sad if the priest decided to use only a vernacular reading for the Epistle & Gospel. I mean, read it in Latin and then during the Homily re-read it in the vernacular!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
As I explained to my kids (one is very anti-Latin), we will study all of the prayers as a family to understand the meaning and pronunciation. I don't expect them to be fluent in Latin, and I'm not forcing my eldest teen to verbalize the responses. I do expect him to know what is being prayed and said. For those wishing to know Latin beyond "the basics," that option is always open...just as learning Hebrew and Greek are useful.
Well it's good that you are teaching your kids Latin. As for Greek and Hebrew though - Scary They don't even use the Latin Alphabet (not that you can't view a transliteration).
  #13  
Old Aug 6, '07, 11:08 am
rlg94086 rlg94086 is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by Catholig View Post
It'd be really sad if the priest decided to use only a vernacular reading for the Epistle & Gospel. I mean, read it in Latin and then during the Homily re-read it in the vernacular!
I'm okay with that. It's just that in order to understand the readings in Latin, you would really need a deeper education in Latin - something relatively few are willing to take on. (I am considering it, though.) Do the missals also have the Epistle & Gospel with side-by-side Latin and vernacular?

Quote:
Well it's good that you are teaching your kids Latin. As for Greek and Hebrew though - Scary They don't even use the Latin Alphabet (not that you can't view a transliteration).
Just to be clear, I am only "teaching" them the basics. Right now, our parish prays/chants/sings the following in Latin (in addition to the Kyrie in Greek) during our 11:30AM Mass: Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Pater Noster and Agnus Dei. We are tackling them one-by-one for understanding and memorization, starting with the easier ones first (Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei and Agnus Dei). I've also told them that we will need to learn additional prayers/responses for the TLM. My understanding from discussing the TLM with our priest is that he will have everyone respond, as opposed to just the servers.

I'm not even considering taking on Hebrew or Greek. Perhaps, after retirement.
  #14  
Old Aug 6, '07, 11:19 am
Catholig Catholig is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
I'm okay with that. It's just that in order to understand the readings in Latin, you would really need a deeper education in Latin - something relatively few are willing to take on. (I am considering it, though.) Do the missals also have the Epistle & Gospel with side-by-side Latin and vernacular?
Yes - they do. Check out http://www.baroniuspress.com/ .
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlg94086 View Post
Just to be clear, I am only "teaching" them the basics. Right now, our parish prays/chants/sings the following in Latin (in addition to the Kyrie in Greek) during our 11:30AM Mass: Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Pater Noster and Agnus Dei. We are tackling them one-by-one for understanding and memorization, starting with the easier ones first (Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei and Agnus Dei). I've also told them that we will need to learn additional prayers/responses for the TLM. My understanding from discussing the TLM with our priest is that he will have everyone respond, as opposed to just the servers.
I'm pretty sure that to demand that everyone responds would be an abuse. I'd definitely talk to him about how it.

The questions that come to mind are:
1) What role will the altar boys have in the Mass if they're only one voice out of a hundred?
2) How will everyone hear the priest?
3) If he uses a microphone - what about the words of consecration , which to my understanding are meant to be inaudible? Is he able to turn it off at the appropriate parts?

Quote:
I'm not even considering taking on Hebrew or Greek. Perhaps, after retirement.
Well right now I'm messing about with the none biblical language of Jerriais.

Catholig
  #15  
Old Aug 6, '07, 11:30 am
KathleenElsie KathleenElsie is offline
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Default Re: Archbishop Vlazny of Portland on the Motu Proprio [Fr. Z]

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Originally Posted by Catholig View Post
Does anyone else HATE the term "Eucharist Celebration"? I mean - it's called the MASS!!! It's been called the MASS since times immemorable!

[Origin: bef. 900; ME masse, OE męsse < VL *messa, LL missa, formally fem. of L missus, ptp. of mittere to send, dismiss; perh. extracted from a phrase in the service with missa est and a fem. subject]

Catholig
Oh boy have you hit a sour spot on me. I cringe when the new priest says "This Eucheristic Celebration has ended" as how he ends the MASS.
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