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  #1  
Old Sep 21, '07, 10:16 pm
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default "Old Order" Catholics

In a conversation I was having with a friend of mine he mentioned a couple he knew in the United States whom he dubbed "Old Order" Catholics.

They converted from Anabaptist and adapted that way of life for Catholicism, working out a culture based on that of 18th century European peasant farmers. They attended an indult parish, but many of the other parishoners actually laughed at them for this, although they spoke with Archbishop Burke of St. Louis and he regarded their lifestyle with respect and understanding.

As I understand it, their decision to live in such a way was not merely because of their Anabaptist background, but because they had (justified) concerns over materialism among Catholics, even traditionalists.

I am curious over opinions about this. Is their way of life justified, or is it nonsense and incompatible with the Catholic faith? Could this be an emerging movement with in the Church, with communities of "Old Order" Catholics similar to the Mennonites and Quakers?
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  #2  
Old Sep 21, '07, 10:29 pm
Andreas Hofer Andreas Hofer is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

I wouldn't anticipate it catching on too much in Catholic circles, mainly because while the Amish/Mennonite aversion to technology is partially motivated by avoiding occasions to pride, it is also strongly rooted in the communitarian and intentional nature of those communities. They in general don't want any technology that can't come from their own community because of the strict separation they seek from the world. Not only do Catholics believe a Christian can have a much higher involvement in the world but our community is based on baptism, not so strictly intention. I don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with what amounts to choosing an ascetic life, so long as one is called to that and it works to spiritual benefit, I just don't think that particular form will draw too many Catholics.
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  #3  
Old Sep 21, '07, 11:37 pm
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
In a conversation I was having with a friend of mine he mentioned a couple he knew in the United States whom he dubbed "Old Order" Catholics.

They converted from Anabaptist and adapted that way of life for Catholicism, working out a culture based on that of 18th century European peasant farmers. They attended an indult parish, but many of the other parishoners actually laughed at them for this, although they spoke with Archbishop Burke of St. Louis and he regarded their lifestyle with respect and understanding.

As I understand it, their decision to live in such a way was not merely because of their Anabaptist background, but because they had (justified) concerns over materialism among Catholics, even traditionalists.

I am curious over opinions about this. Is their way of life justified, or is it nonsense and incompatible with the Catholic faith? Could this be an emerging movement with in the Church, with communities of "Old Order" Catholics similar to the Mennonites and Quakers?
I have never heard of "Old Order" Catholics. Do you know if there is any information about them available on-line? Do you have any links?
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  #4  
Old Sep 22, '07, 12:39 am
markadm markadm is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
I have never heard of "Old Order" Catholics. Do you know if there is any information about them available on-line? Do you have any links?
It's a term the OP's friend created--no links, therefore!
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  #5  
Old Sep 22, '07, 12:47 am
Grace283 Grace283 is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

hmmm... .well i looked up and indult parish... so correct me if i am wrong please... but basically they attend only Latin High Masses and such..... and like the Amish they tend to stay away from "worldly things/life" right?....

in my simplistic opinion its fine. as long as they continue to live their faith to the fullest of their abilities... and they consult a spiritual director and he is okay with it.... i don't really see the problem.. but I could be wrong...

what's your opinion?
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  #6  
Old Sep 22, '07, 8:56 am
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace283 View Post
hmmm... .well i looked up and indult parish... so correct me if i am wrong please... but basically they attend only Latin High Masses and such..... and like the Amish they tend to stay away from "worldly things/life" right?....

in my simplistic opinion its fine. as long as they continue to live their faith to the fullest of their abilities... and they consult a spiritual director and he is okay with it.... i don't really see the problem.. but I could be wrong...

what's your opinion?
It sounds like the people you are describing are traditional Catholics, but they probably do not live a simple lifestyle without any modern technology. For instance, lots of folks here on CAF attend the TLM (not indult anymore after the Motu Proprio). Obviously technology is not a problem, since they have and use computers to post here. It sounds like Caesar is referring to a completely different group of Catholics.
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  #7  
Old Sep 22, '07, 9:05 am
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
I have never heard of "Old Order" Catholics. Do you know if there is any information about them available on-line? Do you have any links?
Sorry, if there is I wouldnt know where to look. The term is an invention of my friend and, strictly speaking, reffers only to that specific couple in the United States. As far as I know, they are not part of any larger group or movement, but did this on their own.

Quote:
hmmm... .well i looked up and indult parish... so correct me if i am wrong please... but basically they attend only Latin High Masses and such..... and like the Amish they tend to stay away from "worldly things/life" right?....
Well the fact that they attend an indult parish is secondary to the way of life they created for themselves. And I don't think they only attend High Mass- I'm sure they also attend Low Mass. I think you are confusing this couple, the so-called Old Order Catholics, with everyone who attends the Tridentine Mass. The fact that many of their fellow parishoners mocked their lifestyle shows that not everyone who attends the Tridentine Mass shares their desire to live a simplistic, rural life.
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  #8  
Old Sep 22, '07, 9:10 am
juliamajor juliamajor is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
In a conversation I was having with a friend of mine he mentioned a couple he knew in the United States whom he dubbed "Old Order" Catholics.

They converted from Anabaptist and adapted that way of life for Catholicism, working out a culture based on that of 18th century European peasant farmers. They attended an indult parish, but many of the other parishoners actually laughed at them for this, although they spoke with Archbishop Burke of St. Louis and he regarded their lifestyle with respect and understanding.

As I understand it, their decision to live in such a way was not merely because of their Anabaptist background, but because they had (justified) concerns over materialism among Catholics, even traditionalists.

I am curious over opinions about this. Is their way of life justified, or is it nonsense and incompatible with the Catholic faith? Could this be an emerging movement with in the Church, with communities of "Old Order" Catholics similar to the Mennonites and Quakers?
I think there talking about Old Catholic church- split from the church over papal infallability.Share much commonality about doctrine and liturgy-but ordain women,accept homosexuality,& birth control
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  #9  
Old Sep 22, '07, 9:12 am
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
It sounds like the people you are describing are traditional Catholics, but they probably do not live a simple lifestyle without any modern technology. For instance, lots of folks here on CAF attend the TLM (not indult anymore after the Motu Proprio). Obviously technology is not a problem, since they have and use computers to post here. It sounds like Caesar is referring to a completely different group of Catholics.
Exactly. This couple attended the TLM at a parish run by the Institute of Christ the Kng, though they were quite alone in their lifestyle there. Like I said, many of the other parishoners laughed at them, though the ICK priests and Archbishop Burke took them seriously and treated them with respect.
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"I have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore I die in exile.
Pope St. Gregory VII (11th century)


Novena for the Intercession and Canonization of
Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria
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  #10  
Old Sep 22, '07, 9:20 am
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliamajor View Post
I think there talking about Old Catholic church- split from the church over papal infallability.Share much commonality about doctrine and liturgy-but ordain women,accept homosexuality,& birth control
No, no, no- they are not "Old Catholics" or any kind of schismatics. They used to attend a parish run by the Institute of Christ the King and now attend Mass offered by the Canons of New Jerusalem (both orders being fully approved by Rome).

The term "Old Order Catholic" has nothing to do with the so-called "Old Catholics". My friend created the term to describe the life lived by this certain couple. They are not heretical or schismatic in any way.
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"I have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore I die in exile.
Pope St. Gregory VII (11th century)


Novena for the Intercession and Canonization of
Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria
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  #11  
Old Sep 22, '07, 9:32 am
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

They're NOW Catholics that simply continued the lifestlye they lead when they were Old Order Amish/Mennonite or whatever it was, right?

I shouldn't think that would be a problem. They could avoid driving a car, but they couldn't claim it was a sin to drive a car.
They could eschew technology, but they couldn't claim that technology was a sin (per se, maybe some of it is, I dunno, I hate the whole cell phone culture).

The more I hear about Archbishop Burke, the more impressed I am by him.
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  #12  
Old Sep 22, '07, 9:36 am
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post
They're NOW Catholics that simply continued the lifestlye they lead when they were Old Order Amish/Mennonite or whatever it was, right?

I shouldn't think that would be a problem. They could avoid driving a car, but they couldn't claim it was a sin to drive a car.
They could eschew technology, but they couldn't claim that technology was a sin (per se, maybe some of it is, I dunno, I hate the whole cell phone culture).

The more I hear about Archbishop Burke, the more impressed I am by him.
Exactly! Although they tweaked the lifestyle they led as Anabaptists to create culture based on that of 17th century Catholic peasants. They do not use electricity or drive cars, and they don't even use a tractor on their farm.
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"I have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore I die in exile.
Pope St. Gregory VII (11th century)


Novena for the Intercession and Canonization of
Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria
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  #13  
Old Sep 22, '07, 10:09 am
JKirkLVNV JKirkLVNV is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
Exactly! Although they tweaked the lifestyle they led as Anabaptists to create culture based on that of 17th century Catholic peasants. They do not use electricity or drive cars, and they don't even use a tractor on their farm.
Sounds kind of "green" to me. I should think the pope would be pleased given some of his recent remarks.
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  #14  
Old Sep 22, '07, 12:03 pm
Caesar Caesar is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by JKirkLVNV View Post
Sounds kind of "green" to me. I should think the pope would be pleased given some of his recent remarks.
It is an interesting idea. I think there are some similar groups in Eastern Orthodoxy, but in regards to Catholicism I have only heard of this single family, though I wouldnt doubt there are others. I wonder if such a movement would be accepted by the mainstream Church (not that the mainstream Church would adopt their ideas, but accept them as a legitimate part of the Church). Would Rome approve of them? Would the bishops?
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"I have loved justice and hated iniquity; therefore I die in exile.
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Novena for the Intercession and Canonization of
Blessed Emperor Karl of Austria
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  #15  
Old Sep 22, '07, 12:06 pm
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: "Old Order" Catholics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
It is an interesting idea. I think there are some similar groups in Eastern Orthodoxy, but in regards to Catholicism I have only heard of this single family, though I wouldnt doubt there are others. I wonder if such a movement would be accepted by the mainstream Church (not that the mainstream Church would adopt their ideas, but accept them as a legitimate part of the Church). Would Rome approve of them? Would the bishops?
As long as they do not claim that those of us who do use technology are sinners, I do not see why they would not be accepted.
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