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  #1  
Old Oct 15, '07, 5:43 pm
DylanO DylanO is offline
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Arrow Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Martin Luther, Lecture at Wittenberg:
Quote:
“If Moses should attempt to intimidate you with his stupid Ten Commandments, tell him right out – chase yourself to the Jews”
Quote:
"If you are a preacher of grace, then preach a true and not a fictitious grace; if grace is true, you must bear a true and not a fictitious sin. God does not save people who are only fictitious sinners. Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly . . . as long as we are here [in this world] we have to sin. . . . No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day"
(Letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521, American Edition, Luther's Works, vol. 48, pp. 281-82).

Quote:
“If we allow them - the Commandments - any influence in our conscience, they become the cloak of all evil, heresies and blasphemies”
(Comm. ad Galat, p.310).

Quote:
"Moses must ever be looked upon with suspicion, even as upon a heretic, excommunicated, damned, worse than the Pope and the devil"
(Commentary on Galatians).

Quote:
"I will not have Moses with his Law, for he is the enemy of the Lord Christ"
(Tischreden (Table Talk), L.C.12.s.17).

Quote:
"When the devil comes to tempt and harass you . . . indulge some sin in hatred of the evil spirit and to torment him . . . otherwise we are beaten if we are too nervously sensitive about guarding against sin . . . I tell you, we must put all the Ten Commandments, with which the devil tempts and plagues us so greatly, out of sight and out of mind."
(Table Talk in De Wette, 5.188; De Wette was a protestant scholar who collected the most significant sayings of Luther in several volumes).

Quote:
“I look upon God no better than a scoundrel”
(Weimar, Vol. 1, Pg. 487. Cf. Table Talk, No. 963)

Quote:
Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died.
(Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107)

Quote:
“I have greater confidence in my wife and my pupils than I have in Christ”
(Table Talk, 2397b)

Quote:
"Not for a thousand years has God bestowed such great gifts on any bishop as He has on me"
(Luther's Works, Erlangen ed., 61:422)

Quote:
“St. Augustine or St. Ambrosius cannot be compared with me.”
(Erlangen, Vol. 61, pg. 422.)

Quote:
"They are fools who attempt to overcome temptations [to lust] by fasting, prayer and chastisement. For such temptations and immoral attacks are easily overcome when there are plenty of maidens and women"
(Luther's Works, Jena ed., 1558, 2, 116; cited in P. F. O'Hare, "The Facts About Luther", Rockford, 1987, 311).

Quote:
"I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture"
(De Wette, 2.459).

David Goldstein, the zealous Catholic convert from Judaism, rightly remarked:

Quote:
“The father of the first Protestant Church [Luther] changed the 28th verse of the 3rd chapter of St. Paul’s Epistle to the Romans to make it fit his doctrine that Christian faith minus Christian works is sufficient for salvation: ‘We hold that man is justified without works by the law of faith alone’. To one of his followers who complained that objection was being made to this perversion of the sacred text, Luther gave the cold comfort: ‘If any Papist annoys you with the word (alone) tell him straightway: Dr. Martin Luther will have it so: Papist and *** are one and the same thing.’’ (Amic. Discussion, I, 127).
Goldstein goes on to explain the brutality of the Lutheran revolt: “The soldiers of the princes slaughtered the peasants, pillaged the churches and prevented Catholic worship in public. In this way Lutheranism was made the doctrine of the first Protestant Church — the State Church of Germany (1520).”
  #2  
Old Oct 15, '07, 6:39 pm
flameburns623 flameburns623 is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

I think this thread has been attempted before, and reputed 'blasphemous quotes from Luther' have proven either to be fictitious or wildly out-of-context. I think in fact that a simple google search will reveal this to be so. If I am mistaken so be it, but thought that others might post with that caveat in mind.
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  #3  
Old Oct 23, '07, 5:56 pm
BrewMax BrewMax is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanO View Post
Martin Luther, Lecture at Wittenberg:



(Letter to Melanchthon, August 1, 1521, American Edition, Luther's Works, vol. 48, pp. 281-82).


(Comm. ad Galat, p.310).


(Commentary on Galatians).


(Tischreden (Table Talk), L.C.12.s.17).


(Table Talk in De Wette, 5.188; De Wette was a protestant scholar who collected the most significant sayings of Luther in several volumes).


(Weimar, Vol. 1, Pg. 487. Cf. Table Talk, No. 963)


(Trishreden, Weimer Edition, Vol. 2, Pg. 107)


(Table Talk, 2397b)


(Luther's Works, Erlangen ed., 61:422)


(Erlangen, Vol. 61, pg. 422.)


(Luther's Works, Jena ed., 1558, 2, 116; cited in P. F. O'Hare, "The Facts About Luther", Rockford, 1987, 311).


(De Wette, 2.459).

David Goldstein, the zealous Catholic convert from Judaism, rightly remarked:



Goldstein goes on to explain the brutality of the Lutheran revolt: “The soldiers of the princes slaughtered the peasants, pillaged the churches and prevented Catholic worship in public. In this way Lutheranism was made the doctrine of the first Protestant Church — the State Church of Germany (1520).”
I don't believe any of this is credible. It sound like a bunch of anti-Luther venom to me. There is plenty of that here going around for sure.
  #4  
Old Oct 23, '07, 6:20 pm
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Mannyfit75 Mannyfit75 is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Yip, that is Luther already. His colors truly shine..
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  #5  
Old Oct 23, '07, 7:01 pm
Mr. Ex Nihilo Mr. Ex Nihilo is offline
 
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

I do beleive that many of these quotes really are from Martin Luther. I cannot verify all of them, but many are his words. Some are taken out of context. Some are not.

Nonetheless, in my own departure from Lutheranism to Catholicism, some of these very same quotes did influence my decision to heed the Holy Spirit as he guided me to the Catholic faith.

I can understand why someone would want others to know the things Luther said. It did sway my own decision because he did say some venemous things. However, I'm not sure if dropping a large volume of quotes from Luther in this way actually accomplishes the goal that is intended.

I would rather try to dialogue with others to guide them as the Holy Spirit works in them toward Catholicism without trying to destroy their faith in the process. Luther may had said many venemous things. But he had at least a few good points too.

Certainly he was a product of his times-- and there really was some highly corrosive things happening in the name of Catholicism at this time too.
  #6  
Old Oct 23, '07, 7:54 pm
Auriel Auriel is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

I am neither a Lutheran or a Catholic. And you are correct, there were many terrible things done to each other from all faiths during those times. Many were a product of the times they lived in, such as the views most held on women.

IMHO Martin Luther's biggest flaw was his hatred toward Jews. I look at him as having a type A personality. I believe he tried to convert them and when they did not respond in the manner that he thought they would he became bitter. He had an abrasive way of speaking when others disagreed with him.

I have never heard some of the other quotes, but the best source is his own works, one such book he wrote 3 yrs before his death, the title of said book is called "On the Jews and Their lies". Here is the link to the book is anyone is interested. http://www.humanitas-international.o...uther-jews.htm

It would be unfair to say that Modern Lutherans hold to the same beliefs. I will say though it was an unfortunate view, Martin Luther's writings were used by Hitler to incite antisemitism.

I think there was another thread on this, but here are a few quotes from his book:

Quote:
If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country.
The following quote is twisted by many racist people who call themselves Christian to make it fit into a theory known as the serpent seed line.

Quote:
He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.
Quote:
They [rulers] must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did...

If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs.
Quote:
Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?
It is not as shocking though when you think about the time in which it was written. Quite a few of America's founding fathers were not to fond of the Jewish race either. Benjamin Franklin wanted to exclude them from our Constitution.

I am pretty sure God straightened them out.
  #7  
Old Oct 23, '07, 8:02 pm
Auriel Auriel is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

I meant to add, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America issued this statement:
Quote:
"We who bear his name and heritage must acknowledge with pain the anti-Judaic diatribes contained in Luther's later writings. We reject this violent invective as did many of his companions in the sixteenth century, and we are moved to deep and abiding sorrow at its tragic effects on later generations of Jews."
  #8  
Old Oct 24, '07, 5:10 am
zerinus zerinus is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameburns623 View Post
I think this thread has been attempted before, and reputed 'blasphemous quotes from Luther' have proven either to be fictitious or wildly out-of-context. I think in fact that a simple google search will reveal this to be so. If I am mistaken so be it, but thought that others might post with that caveat in mind.
Why should they be false? He has given the source of the quotes. That is the standard procedure for quoting from someone or something. If you think that they are false, the burden of proof is on you to show that the sources cited do not contain those quotes, not just accusing him of giving false quotes, without anything to back up your claim.

zerinus
  #9  
Old Oct 24, '07, 6:30 am
SyCarl SyCarl is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

I am not a Lutheran but I think that it is improper to cherry pick quotes without providing the context. Let's take an example.

Would you want someone as the head of your church who Jesus called Satan, who denied knowing Jesus three times and who was reprimanded by Paul for hypocrisy? Yet Scripture can be cherry picked to tell us that Peter was Satan and a hypoctite who didn't know Jesus. Would that be a fair assessment of Peter and his suitability for leadership? I don't think so.

In addition, just as Catholics do not claim that the Pope is impecable, Protestants do not claim that for our leaders either.

Last edited by SyCarl; Oct 24, '07 at 6:49 am.
  #10  
Old Oct 24, '07, 6:40 am
thedavidwilson thedavidwilson is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auriel View Post
I meant to add, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America issued this statement:
Quote:
"We who bear his name and heritage must acknowledge with pain the anti-Judaic diatribes contained in Luther's later writings. We reject this violent invective as did many of his companions in the sixteenth century, and we are moved to deep and abiding sorrow at its tragic effects on later generations of Jews."

We need something like this from Muslims, but that is another thread...
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  #11  
Old Oct 24, '07, 6:42 am
zerinus zerinus is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyCarl View Post
I am not a Lutheran but I think that it is improper to cherry pick quotes wothout providing the context. Let's take an example.

Would you want someone as the head of your church who Jesus called Satan, who denied knowing Jesus three times and who was reprimanded by Paul for hypocrisy? Yet Scripture can be cherry picked to tell us that Peter was Satan and hypoctite who didn't know Jesus. Would that be a fair assessment of Peter and his suitability for leadership? I don't think so.

In addition, just as Catholics do not claim that the Pope is impecable, Protestants do not claim that for our leaders either.
Yes, that is a valid point. I can go along with that. But merely accusing him of giving false quotes, when he has provided the sources, and without any evidence to back it up, is not the right way.

zerinus
  #12  
Old Oct 24, '07, 8:40 am
BrewMax BrewMax is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
Yip, that is Luther already. His colors truly shine..
you don't know what you are talking about.
  #13  
Old Oct 24, '07, 8:41 am
BrewMax BrewMax is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
Yip, that is Luther already. His colors truly shine..
you don't know anything about Luther except for the distorted garbage and outright lies being propagated here.
  #14  
Old Oct 24, '07, 8:52 am
O.S. Luke O.S. Luke is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Say it with me: context... research... context... research...

Y'all sound like a bunch of Protestants quoting scripture out of context to justify your beliefs. Sheesh. What a load of scheisse (Luther used that word at Marburg Colloquy when Zwingli suggested that the Eucharist was purely symbolic).
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  #15  
Old Oct 24, '07, 12:46 pm
RomanCrusader RomanCrusader is offline
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Default Re: Blasphemous quotes from Martin Luther

Can't say I'm surprised...
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