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  #1  
Old Oct 18, '07, 4:48 pm
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Default Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Some Eastern Orthodox claim that some Catholic like in Tucson, Ar. had a Redemptorist priest practicing Zen. Isn't this sort of practice contrary to the Catholic Church. I know Fr. John Corapi would go ballistic about it.

I'm completely oppose to any introduction of Eastern Asian Spirituality introduced into Catholicism.

Here is the post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heracleides

Oh please - I am not reading anti-Catholic material - I am reading Catholic material.

Perhaps I am reading more than you. Remarkable how uninformed the average Catholic is about the new-age rot in their midst. Just one example (and if you've the courage of your convictions you can locate many more instances with just a minimal amount of effort on your part):

Redemptorist Renewal Center: http://www.desertrenewal.org/rrc/events_calendar.html

Click on the LifeForce Yoga Healing Intensive and Pathless Path ~ Zen Sesshin Beginners Weekend midway down the page (that is, if you dare educate yourself).

The 'Zen' retreat is led by Zen-Catholic Redemptorist Priest Fr. Pat Hawk Roshi (see: http://www.desertrenewal.org/pdf/pro...en_sesshin.pdf )

Go on - be brave.
.
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  #2  
Old Oct 18, '07, 5:15 pm
TMC TMC is offline
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Doesn't it depend on what they mean by "Zen" Catholicism? There is a lot of good and interesting philosophy in the ancient Asian practices. Some of their wisdom can be illuminating if understood in the proper context. But I don't think you can practice anything close to the religion known as "Zen" and be Catholic. So I guess you would need to know what they mean by their terms.
  #3  
Old Oct 18, '07, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
Doesn't it depend on what they mean by "Zen" Catholicism? There is a lot of good and interesting philosophy in the ancient Asian practices. Some of their wisdom can be illuminating if understood in the proper context. But I don't think you can practice anything close to the religion known as "Zen" and be Catholic. So I guess you would need to know what they mean by their terms.
I don't think we should allow it. Aren't we suppose to preserve the truth taught to us by Christ, and any introduce foreign doctrines such as Zen is erroneous?

To me this is a issue. It's have Catholicism depart from the Truth. Though I don't think it wouldn't. I do believe the Vatican need to clarify any issue concerning Asian Philosphily before heresy may develop out of it.

I also look at PDF. This is disturbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by From the PDF file
What is Sesshin? It means to “touch the mind,” and is a traditional three– to eight–day silent retreat in the Zen Buddhist tradition. Sesshin is an opportunity to deepen one’s practice, strengthened by the presence of others doing the same. Participants practice alone and together, seek harmony between
body and mind, and between the individual and the group. In sesshin, participants are encouraged to do things together as one way to help each other realize this harmony. Each day of sesshin includes zazen, or seated focused awareness, kinhin, or walking meditation, silent meals, sutras, dokusan, or private interviews with the teacher, teisho, or talk given by the Roshi or
teacher, and samu, or work practice. There are four blocks of meditation: early morning, mid-morning, afternoon and evening.
There is a minimum of five minutes of kinhin in each block. Each participant has a daily work assignment as a way to bring meditation practice up off our cushions and into every-day life. Each participant is expected to fully participate in the daily cycle, unless prior arrangements have been made with the sesshin
coordinator.
Some info on the instructor:

F r. Pat Hawk Roshi is the guiding teacher for our sesshins, and resides at Redemptorist Renewal Center in Tucson. He is a Zen Master in The Diamond Sangha, a lay sangha founded in Hawaii in 1959 by Robert and Anne Aitken. The Diamond Sangha is an independent Zen lineage in the Harada-Yasutani tradition: a blending of the Rinzai and Soto schools of Zen. We trace our lineage back to Hakuin Ekaku, the 18th centruy reformer of the Rinzai sect, and dogen Kigen, the 13th century founder

There is nothing Christian about Zen. NONE.
of the Soto sect in Japan.
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"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,.." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D." - Manny
  #4  
Old Oct 18, '07, 5:34 pm
Hellisreal Hellisreal is offline
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Well, I have to say that the poster was not very charitable in his delivery of the sad fact that SINNERS are members of the Church.

And if that poster thinks his church is immune from this- he can think again.

Tell him he is taking the low road.

We all know there are terrible things happening THAT SHOULD NOT BE.

He is not telling us anything that ought to scare us, or cause us to scramble around, wondering why oh why...

UNTIL HE CAN CLEAN UP HIS OWN HOUSE
  #5  
Old Oct 18, '07, 5:34 pm
TMC TMC is offline
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Manny,

Not disagreeing with you, the problem is that I don't know what "it" is. I took at look at that .pdf and it seemed pretty Zen, and not very Catholic, so I am suspicious. That said, I have read a bit of eastern philosophy, both Buddhist and Tao, and I think that looking at these at these philosophies can be illiuminating if taken in the right context. Not appropriate for everyone, perhaps.
  #6  
Old Oct 18, '07, 5:39 pm
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
Manny,

Not disagreeing with you, the problem is that I don't know what "it" is. I took at look at that .pdf and it seemed pretty Zen, and not very Catholic, so I am suspicious. That said, I have read a bit of eastern philosophy, both Buddhist and Tao, and I think that looking at these at these philosophies can be illiuminating if taken in the right context. Not appropriate for everyone, perhaps.
Check the bio of the instructor, who is a priest. I rarely see anything centered on Christ. I think he is dishonor Alfonso Liguori's Order by introducting this heretical doctrine.
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Call me Emmanuel, or Manny.

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,.." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D." - Manny
  #7  
Old Oct 19, '07, 6:17 am
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
Doesn't it depend on what they mean by "Zen" Catholicism? There is a lot of good and interesting philosophy in the ancient Asian practices. Some of their wisdom can be illuminating if understood in the proper context. But I don't think you can practice anything close to the religion known as "Zen" and be Catholic. So I guess you would need to know what they mean by their terms.
Zen is Buddhism and Buddhists believe in reincarnation and do not believe in God. I can't see how Zen and Catholicism can possibly be compatible.
  #8  
Old Oct 19, '07, 6:33 am
clmowry clmowry is offline
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Perhaps it could be that "eastern mysticism" is getting translated as "Zin"? *keeps his fingers crossed*
  #9  
Old Oct 19, '07, 9:45 am
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clmowry View Post
Perhaps it could be that "eastern mysticism" is getting translated as "Zin"? *keeps his fingers crossed*
I'm wondering the same thing. Some people might translate the practice of the Jesus Prayer by Orthodox monks on Mt. Athos as a "zen-like" practice. Same with the writings of the desert fathers in the Philokalia.

It's not zen. It IS incarnational. It has nothing to do with reincarnation or Buddhism. But it does involve emptying one's mind of worldly distraction and focusing on the Jesus Prayer. So some people might use "zen" as a way of describing it - even though that description is erroneous. The practice itself is considered very devout and worthy of emulation.

So I think we have to be careful with terminology. Of course, I don't know what the priest in question means by "zen." If he's trying to introduce Buddhism, then obviously that's completely inconsistent with Catholicism. If he's introducing Eastern Christian forms of mysticism, and using shorthand language like "zen" to describe them, then the problem is with the terminology not the practice. So far as I know, the Catholic Church does not consider Eastern Christian mystical practice as being at all inconsistent with Western Catholic practice.
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  #10  
Old Oct 19, '07, 10:48 am
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle View Post
Zen is Buddhism and Buddhists believe in reincarnation and do not believe in God. I can't see how Zen and Catholicism can possibly be compatible.
Exactly. If someone doesn't do anything about it. I hope someone will. We can only pray for them to correct their errors.
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Call me Emmanuel, or Manny.

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,.." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D." - Manny
  #11  
Old Nov 8, '09, 7:13 pm
LJinPA LJinPA is offline
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

There is a book called "Zen Catholicism" that has an impramatur from 1963...pre Vatican 2and pre new age...sort of. I only read the reviews and I believe it was not promoting Zen but merely showing paralells between the 2 traditions.
Buddhism and Catholicism are not compatable but nor are they antagonistic to each other. There are elements of truth in Zen but they can also be found in the mystical end of Catholicism. Buddhism is more a philosophy than a religion.

Some lady once called Fr. Benedict Groeschel and was worried about young people getting caught up in eastern thought. Father replied how young people are getting caught up in what they THINK is eastern thought and how many authentic Asian Buddhists are not happy with the New Age. Father Groeschel does seems to have respect for all religions and Mother Teresa had a lot of respect for Hindus.

You can't be Catholic AND buddhist but you can probably be Buddhist and believe a wide range of stuff including some Catholic beliefs. Buddhism does not mean one can do whatever they want though and it is pro-life for the most part.

Never confuse an Eastern Religion with some New Age dabblers or Celebrities who use Zen for personal advantage and defeats many of the virtues of Zen (like humility). I'm no expert on Eastern Religion but I could safely say that not only is true Zen Buddhism not New Age, but it is not occult, it's not hedonistic or permissive, it has nothing to do with Oprah Winfrey or "The Secret", it has nothing to do with witchcraft, it doesn't worship the devil, it doesn't worship Buddha, its not pagan or neo-pagan.

A Catholic can read about Buddhism and be inspired by some of its teachings(provided we are well grounded and chatechized in our own faith), some of which are common sense. I think Zen is just the mystical arm of Buddhism. Catholics would have to remember that any truths found in Buddhism can be found in Catholicism we just have to look deeper into it.

To both Catholics and Buddhists we need to overcome the ego and "die unto ourselves" but Buddhism seems to define the ego way too broadly and seems to deny that we have individual identies. Also the Catholic concept of the afterlife "heaven" seems far more fun than the Buddhist "nirvana".
  #12  
Old Nov 9, '09, 3:30 am
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMC View Post
Doesn't it depend on what they mean by "Zen" Catholicism? There is a lot of good and interesting philosophy in the ancient Asian practices. Some of their wisdom can be illuminating if understood in the proper context. But I don't think you can practice anything close to the religion known as "Zen" and be Catholic. So I guess you would need to know what they mean by their terms.
Using Zen and Catholic together is a contradiction. Zen is Buddhism and to quote Pope John Paul II that is a religion of atheism. There is no belief in God.
Catholicism and Zen are NOT compatible.
  #13  
Old Nov 9, '09, 6:14 am
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

My first instinct is that we cannot allow this. Zen Buddhism and Catholicism are incompatible.
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Old Nov 16, '10, 11:56 pm
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Default Re: Zen Catholicism: Isn't this wrong practice?

This is a wonderful question and does beg to be addressed by a higher authority. One verse comes to mind- "Be still, and know that I am God" Psalm 46:10. We are also told to meditate as well, which does not connote the idea of skimming over an idea, but to think deeply upon it.

Last night I tried to 'be still' in my mind and 'know' He's God, and let me tell you it was no easy feat! There was all kinds of random thoughts I had difficulty silencing....meditation in zen buddhism also has you silence your mind. There are some similarities and some differences although the differences could be contributed to a matter of mere semantics.

All that being said, the real question here is Why are people seeking to gain spiritual enlightment outside the Church? No one priest nor pastor has ever taught me to meditate, although its been right there in front of me the whole time, 'Be still, and know that I am God."
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