Do Neanderthals go to Heaven?

[barbfromtucson]

See my previous posting...the scientific community is divided as to whether neanderthals interbred or if they died out.


--Barbara

[catechumen08]

Originally Posted by barbfromtucson

Half the anthropologists who study Neanderthals believe they were their separate species who died out. The other half believe they were their separate species who interbred with us and became one.

Originally Posted by barbfromtucson

See my previous posting...the scientific community is divided as to whether neanderthals interbred or if they died out.

I believe an overwhelming majority of anthropologists still believe that Neanderthals did not interbreed with modern humans, and hence did not contribute to our genome.

[inthecloud]

The most recent theories do not favor the Neardenthal/Cro Magnon crossbreeding. And in Africa there were no Neardenthals anyway.

[tomarin]

Originally Posted by johnstown johnn

When God created Adam, God formed Adam out of the earth. God said, "..let Us make man in Our Image and Likeness.." (Genesis) After man was formed from the soil God breathed into its nostrils and "man became a living soul."

This is the very first time the word "soul" appears in the Bible. All things/;creatures created BEFORE Adam DID NOT have souls.

Therefore they were NOT created in "God's Own Image and Likeness."

they were short and barrel-chested (an adaptation to living in a cold climate), but had an enormous amount of muscle on them. nevetheless i had an anthropology professor in college who claimed that if you dressed a Neanderthal in modern clothing and put him on the subway, nobody would bat an eye. (of course this assetion was uttered in boston, so keep that in mind ...)

as for the word soul, i was under the impression that the jews did not have a concept for the soul, the idea of a body and soul dichotomy being foreign to them. so in the genesis passage you cite, it would be more accurate to say that is the first instance the word "soul" appears in the english translation. it is a translation of some other word in aramaic or hebrew but it isn't exactly "soul".

[johnstown johnn]

Originally Posted by tomarin

they were short and barrel-chested (an adaptation to living in a cold climate), but had an enormous amount of muscle on them. nevetheless i had an anthropology professor in college who claimed that if you dressed a Neanderthal in modern clothing and put him on the subway, nobody would bat an eye. (of course this assetion was uttered in boston, so keep that in mind ...)

as for the word soul, i was under the impression that the jews did not have a concept for the soul, the idea of a body and soul dichotomy being foreign to them. so in the genesis passage you cite, it would be more accurate to say that is the first instance the word "soul" appears in the english translation. it is a translation of some other word in aramaic or hebrew but it isn't exactly "soul".

I'll accept the notion that Hebrews did not have a cognizance of what a "soul" might be. However, maybe they interpreted "soul" as "spirit." It could NOT be glossed over because the "word" (soul) pointed at is an additional ENTITY as it were. It just could not be given short pause.

The Boston subway Neanderthal...Funny..LOL. If he was wering a Red Sox ballcap...maybe he'd be swarmed with autograph seekers.

[DJJG]

Originally Posted by catechumen08

Hi, I just saw this question somewhere that I didn't know the answer to. Do Neanderthals go to Heaven?

Thanks in advance!

I think he question should be, "DID neanderthals go to heaven?"

[tomarin]

Originally Posted by johnstown johnn

I'll accept the notion that Hebrews did not have a cognizance of what a "soul" might be. However, maybe they interpreted "soul" as "spirit." It could NOT be glossed over because the "word" (soul) pointed at is an additional ENTITY as it were. It just could not be given short pause.

johnstown john, i'm not sure i entirely know what you're getting at, but it would be interesting to read an english rendering of the genesis from a modern jewish bible, if such a thing exists.

i learned about this from reading robert alter's new translation of "the book of psalms" (w.w. norton, 2007) in which he writes the following footnote for his translation of psalm 23, specifically the line that reads (in his translation) "My life he brings back":

Though "he restoreth my soul" is time-honored, the Hebrew "nefesh" does not mean "soul" but "life breath" or "life." The image is of someone who has almost stopped breathing and is revived, brought back to life. (page 78).

[johnstown johnn]

Didn't the Blessed Mother, at the very threshhold of the New Testament but STILL attached to the Old Testament, say to Angel Gabriel at the Annunciation: "...my SOUL magnifies the Lord..."

"SOUL" can be assumed to mean the same thing as it did in Genesis, I would think.

This can get pretty active in searching "soul" references. Very thought-provoking.

Isn'y life (according to believers) animated by the soul? Some may use "spirit" not sure if they are interchangeable.

[tomarin]

Originally Posted by johnstown johnn

Didn't the Blessed Mother, at the very threshhold of the New Testament but STILL attached to the Old Testament, say to Angel Gabriel at the Annunciation: "...my SOUL magnifies the Lord..."

"SOUL" can be assumed to mean the same thing as it did in Genesis, I would think.

This can get pretty active in searching "soul" references. Very thought-provoking.

Isn'y life (according to believers) animated by the soul? Some may use "spirit" not sure if they are interchangeable.

ah, here we switch from hebrew or aramaic to greek. i can find the exact greek word if you give me the chapter and verse, since i have a greek new testament here at home.

[johnstown johnn]

Originally Posted by tomarin

ah, here we switch from hebrew or aramaic to greek. i can find the exact greek word if you give me the chapter and verse, since i have a greek new testament here at home.

Luke. Chapter 1; 46-47.

46. and mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Now, this brings in BOTH "soul" and "spirit". Seemingly they are two separate and distinct components.

Like to know what you come up with.

[YinYangMom]

"He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead"

It has been my understanding that no one prior to Jesus descending to the dead after his death entered the kingdom of heaven.

All those who were born and died prior to that had to wait until He came to them directly on that day to proclaim Himself as the savior.

At that time (remember this is outside our human concept of time/space) those souls had the opportunity to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior or not. If they did, they went to heaven, if they didn't they went to hell.

I've heard that explanation in various forms over the years and it makes perfect sense to me, so given that Adam and Eve were the first humans I don't need scientific evidence to tell me neanderthals or any other variation of humans as we've discovered to date have some sort of biological tie to Adam and Eve.

In any case, since the neaderthals, et. al., died prior to Jesus' descent to the dead I assume their souls were there when He proclaimed Himself - and if they accepted Him they are in heaven, if they rejected Him they are not.

Simplistic, yes, but in the grand scheme of things I don't stress out too much about these kind of questions. These things remind me to remain focused on doing what I can do to up my chances of getting into heaven one day because I sure am curious about them and the only way I'll know for certain is if I get to heaven myself.

[tomarin]

Originally Posted by johnstown johnn

Luke. Chapter 1; 46-47.

46. and mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord.

47. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

verse 46 uses the word "psyche" meaning soul or spirit. we also use it to mean "mind" but i don't know if the greeks used it that way.

verse 47 uses the word "pneuma" meaning wind, air, breath, vitality, spirit; from pneo to breathe. it also means "ghost" as in "holy ghost".

unfortunately my greek isn't good enough to know what distinction, if any, there is between these two words.

[brotherhrolf]

Originally Posted by johnstown johnn

That is interesting. Going over in my mind I try to visualise European characteristics resembling the popular renderings of what was Neanderthal displayed in books and museums.. I am at a loss.

Inbreeding? I think the Neanderthal vanished with the dinosaurs. But that's just a self-imposed anachronism.

Interesting though.

Sorry I'm late in responding to this. Yes - European characteristics. I had completed two years of study towards my degree in Anthropology when I went into the Navy. In boot camp everyone then had shaved heads. One of the guys was of Polish descent. He had a pronounced supraorbital crest over his eyes and an occipital bun - technical terms for a big brow over his eyes and the back of his skull was pointed not rounded.

Like this:



This is as close as I could come to what I observed. This is a modern Homo Sapiens Sapiens skull. Note the pronounced brow ridge. The occipital region is more rounded than the guy I saw.
I'm one of the anthropologists who believes that Homo Sapiens Neandertalensis was a sub-species and capable of merging with Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

[johnstown johnn]

Originally Posted by brotherhrolf

Sorry I'm late in responding to this. Yes - European characteristics. I had completed two years of study towards my degree in Anthropology when I went into the Navy. In boot camp everyone then had shaved heads. One of the guys was of Polish descent. He had a pronounced supraorbital crest over his eyes and an occipital bun - technical terms for a big brow over his eyes and the back of his skull was pointed not rounded.

Like this:



This is as close as I could come to what I observed. This is a modern Homo Sapiens Sapiens skull. Note the pronounced brow ridge. The occipital region is more rounded than the guy I saw.
I'm one of the anthropologists who believes that Homo Sapiens Neandertalensis was a sub-species and capable of merging with Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

That illustration of the Polish (skull) fellow is uncommon inasmuch as Polish characteristics are concerned. Someone bearing such characteristics must have had a lot of "twists and turns" in his progenitors; they could be coincidental traits that converged at that man's conception. To say it could be a resurfacing of a Neanderthal as far back as thousands of years ago, IMO, is a stretch.

It may be some gene from another race such as Asian or Aborigine that somehow combined with a Slavic base caused such a skull contour. (Or he might NOT even have any Slavic genes).

It would be too presumptive to think that interbreeding with a species such as Neanderthal and modern man could have occurred.

Since Adam and Eve, man's travels were restricted in so far as great distances...they were gradual in expansion.

Neanderthals were from another world; another time and became extinct. I suppose they died off along with the dinosaurs during a great galactic cataclysm (the commonly held notion).

If they had many similarities in skeletal structure they did not know God nor did they have a soul. Genesis mentions "soul" for the first time when describing Adam.

Just an off-the-wall thought I carried with me for some years in this general topic...I believe Adam and Eve were the very FIRST man and woman created by God...but it may not necessarily mean they were the ONLY man and woman...others could have been formed AFTER Adam...I do NOT hold this as a conviction..I fear it might be flirting with heresy. I just can speculate like the rest of us.

[fkjuliano]

Originally Posted by Ahimsa

Yes, maybe Christ's union of God and Man means the union of God and All Life, leading to the salvation of All Life.

The notion of an afterlife for fleas and amoebae is frivolous to say the least.