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  #1  
Old Nov 1, '07, 12:32 pm
themait themait is offline
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Default Tips on fighting an annulment

I really hope I can fix things with my wife...but I have no idea what she is thinking...or making her decisions now or anything.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that our marriage is valid, holy, and that we entered into it with full understanding of what the Catholic Church and God was asking of us. I know in my heart that if an annulment is granted, that it will be wrong, and that I will fight it to the death.

Honestly, it would be easier for me to lie to myself or not tell the whole truth to a church tribunal to get out of my marriage---than to live the rest of my days honoring my wife as my wife...and giving up all possibilities for children.

I am only 32 years old---was married for almost 10 years, and we had had difficulties having children. I can't even imagine spending the next 70 years alone, without children, with nothing to come home and work for.

Anyway....if anyone has gone through an annulment proceeding recently....and has wanted to fight it... I just was wondering if I would be able to pick your brain, get pointers, find out what you did, know what to expect, etc.

Thanks in advance.,...and please pray for my wife, me and my marriage.
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  #2  
Old Nov 1, '07, 12:53 pm
Timidity Timidity is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

If you were being sued for everything you had, would you show up in court without a lawyer?

Likewise, you shouldn't fight an annulment without hiring a canonist.
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  #3  
Old Nov 1, '07, 12:56 pm
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Quote:
Originally Posted by themait View Post
I know without a shadow of a doubt that our marriage is valid, holy, and that we entered into it with full understanding of what the Catholic Church and God was asking of us. I know in my heart that if an annulment is granted, that it will be wrong, and that I will fight it to the death.

Thanks in advance.,...and please pray for my wife, me and my marriage.
I'm so sorry about your marriage, but the fact that you know it was valid and will fight to prove that is extremely honorable. The only advice I could give is to pray about and trust that the Church will come to the same conclusion you did (that it was/is valid). I don't have any other advice, but I'll say a prayer for you and your wife.
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  #4  
Old Nov 1, '07, 1:26 pm
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

You should get a canon lawyer to help you out on this.

But I do have to ask, while you know the state you were in when you contracted the marriage can you say, 100%, that you know the state your wife was in?
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  #5  
Old Nov 1, '07, 1:33 pm
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Brendan Brendan is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByzCath View Post
You should get a canon lawyer to help you out on this.

But I do have to ask, while you know the state you were in when you contracted the marriage can you say, 100%, that you know the state your wife was in?
That was my thoughts exactly. One might understand their own state, and be able to estimate anothers, but that estimation is that of an untrained person. A Marriage Tribunal will examine the state of both parties, and do so with deep training in the Sacremental theology of Marriage, as well as Canon Law.

Do remember that one always has the right of appeal to the Roman Rota. However, if they too rule that the marriage was invalid, you must accept that.
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  #6  
Old Nov 1, '07, 1:36 pm
themait themait is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Of course no one could know with 100% certainty that their spouse entered into a marriage with all the right understanding. And thus why on earth-a trial is held.

But that being said. I know my wife, I know what our marriage was. I know that we took 1.5 years from the date of our engagement till our wedding day to make certain of our decision, our readiness, our marriage prep through the church. And we lived everyday from then...till basically June with 100% devotion to our marriage, the Church, and our calling to our vocation.

Unfortunately...even though all the right words were spoken in our marriage prep classes, all the right readings were chosen together for our wedding mass that seems to really reflect our understanding of the callings of marriage---it seems like anyone could just come up with any excuse-just to get an anullment through. I am scared about that-though I still don't see how any tribunal would grant us one---but the high "success" rate terrifies me.

I just have to rely on God and what I know in my own heart and soul of what is right. And on my wife. And pray.
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  #7  
Old Nov 1, '07, 1:40 pm
Friar David, O.Carm Friar David, O.Carm is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Quote:
Originally Posted by themait View Post
Of course no one could know with 100% certainty that their spouse entered into a marriage with all the right understanding. And thus why on earth-a trial is held.

But that being said. I know my wife, I know what our marriage was. I know that we took 1.5 years from the date of our engagement till our wedding day to make certain of our decision, our readiness, our marriage prep through the church. And we lived everyday from then...till basically June with 100% devotion to our marriage, the Church, and our calling to our vocation.

Unfortunately...even though all the right words were spoken in our marriage prep classes, all the right readings were chosen together for our wedding mass that seems to really reflect our understanding of the callings of marriage---it seems like anyone could just come up with any excuse-just to get an anullment through. I am scared about that-though I still don't see how any tribunal would grant us one---but the high "success" rate terrifies me.

I just have to rely on God and what I know in my own heart and soul of what is right. And on my wife. And pray.
This is why you must get a canon lawyer to work your side of the case.

Also be aware that the tribunal will only look at the state you and your wife where in when you contracted the marriage. What happened afterwards, while you were married, really has no bearing on it. Though your preparation before the marriage may.
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  #8  
Old Nov 1, '07, 1:42 pm
themait themait is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Yeah-- I know you have the appeal and all that. That is about as far as my knowledge has gotten though---other than knowing of the basic reasons that annulments are granted.

Anyone know where to find/or has relatively recent data regarding approval rates in the US for annulments and the total percentage of approvals that are upheld through the Vatican stage. I thought a very high percentage of annulments were overturned at that level.

Also, some time ago, when doing some internet research, I read somewhere that someone (I thought it was a recent pope-or cardinal) said that even your marriage is annuled...if you know in your heart that the annulment shouldn't have been granted...that the tribunal is merely made up of men---and men make mistakes...and therefore the only place that the validity of marriage is known is between a couple and God. Any clues?
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  #9  
Old Nov 1, '07, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

My sister's marriage was annulled and my priest told me, when I asked his advice, that there must be a tcommon hread prior to marriage, during, and after. This helps. To give you an example: my sister was physically abused before and after.

My nephew, who is not catholic, married his wife and is divorced. But the wife was having an affair before the marriage, during the marriage and after.

Witnesses must confirm this. my aunt saw my sister before she was married with black and blue marks and looked sedated. And yet she went along for the ride. Abuse was rampant, as he abused her sexually, physically (and violent), spiritually, and mentally. There were witnesses to all of this. Well, except for the sexual. He would demand sex every night for 22 years no matter how she felt.

I realize that his is not your case but see if there is a common thread that she could hang on to to make her case. If there is not any, well, I would really doubt she could win.
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  #10  
Old Nov 1, '07, 2:28 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

it is not a matter of fighting an annulment, it is a matter of completing the interview form honestly and accurately, insofar as it pertains to yourself and your condition at the time of the marriage, and what you know of other surrounding conditions, and what you surmised at the time about your wife's conditions. You cannot know in entirety what her disposition was at the time, so you only testify about what you do know. If you need help with the intervew contact the tribunal they will appoint someone to assist you, or help you find a canon lawyer if you feel it is necessary. try to get away from a mentality that compares annulment investigation with the adversarial civil law divorce procedures. they are not the same thing.
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  #11  
Old Nov 1, '07, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Quote:
Originally Posted by themait View Post
Of course no one could know with 100% certainty that their spouse entered into a marriage with all the right understanding. And thus why on earth-a trial is held.

But that being said. I know my wife, I know what our marriage was. I know that we took 1.5 years from the date of our engagement till our wedding day to make certain of our decision, our readiness, our marriage prep through the church. And we lived everyday from then...till basically June with 100% devotion to our marriage, the Church, and our calling to our vocation.

Unfortunately...even though all the right words were spoken in our marriage prep classes, all the right readings were chosen together for our wedding mass that seems to really reflect our understanding of the callings of marriage---it seems like anyone could just come up with any excuse-just to get an anullment through. I am scared about that-though I still don't see how any tribunal would grant us one---but the high "success" rate terrifies me.

I just have to rely on God and what I know in my own heart and soul of what is right. And on my wife. And pray.
I have been through the annulment process, and thank God I got it. The reason they are so "successful" is because only those who really care about remarriage and the Sacraments go for them. The rest don't care and just get married again anyway. They stop going to church, but send their kids to Catholic school, because the tuition is cheap compared to other private schools.

All the "right words, pre-cana, bla bla" were said. When our first child was born, the truth came out. He got worse and worse when it came to religion. He didn't go to the baptism. He began calling me a religious fanatic and refused to "let" me give more than $5.00 a week, even though we were making well over $50,000/year (this was 20 years ago).

You cannot know what the state of another's soul is. Why would you fight an annulment? If you get it, you can get married again. If she changes her mind, you get her back.

I for one, tolerate my ex. He stays in my house when he is in town to visit the kids. He goes to church on Sundays with us now when he is in town. We get along great, when we are on my turf. He is on his second divorce and living with his girlfriend. I have chosen not to marry again at least until my children are grown.

I'm sorry, but your post really makes me mad. Are you a control freak? Are you going to tell the Church what she should do? Please do not belittle the CC for "successful" annulments.
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  #12  
Old Nov 1, '07, 2:55 pm
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzleannie View Post
it is not a matter of fighting an annulment, it is a matter of completing the interview form honestly and accurately, insofar as it pertains to yourself and your condition at the time of the marriage, and what you know of other surrounding conditions, and what you surmised at the time about your wife's conditions. You cannot know in entirety what her disposition was at the time, so you only testify about what you do know. If you need help with the intervew contact the tribunal they will appoint someone to assist you, or help you find a canon lawyer if you feel it is necessary. try to get away from a mentality that compares annulment investigation with the adversarial civil law divorce procedures. they are not the same thing.
Yes, thank you.
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  #13  
Old Nov 1, '07, 3:37 pm
themait themait is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

I am not trying to say that I know for 100% what is in her heart and soul. I know for a fact that from the basic information that I have seen about annulments, that we both fully understood what we were getting into. This is from 1.5 years of marriage prep, our total lives in Catholic schools, Catholic families, and attending Catholic Mass and education. From conversations before and after our wedding day---our actions-we truly had a Catholic marriage-one that I truly know in "my" heart was valid.

And yes, I will fight an annulment if one is given--should my wife request one, because I know in my heart that what we had was true and that I can think of no way that one could be granted in our marriage unless someone wasn't being completely honest. Noone can say what another person feels at any point in their lives. You only know what is in your heart---and what your relationship was with your spouse and with God. And I will appeal, knowing the high success rates of anullments in the US...why should that not give me pause when I look at the success rates at the appeal level or at other countries around the world?

There is no control issue. My wife married me...and if it was for any reasons that I truly believe they were...then it is something sacred and something worth fighting for. I won't just lay down to for something that "i know" in my heart was right.
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  #14  
Old Nov 1, '07, 3:52 pm
Cathryn Cathryn is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

I agree with the previous poster who said to just tell the truth on the annulment forms. Maybe the annulment will be denied, but that doesn't mean your wife will live with you. You need to come to terms with the fact that she wants to be apart. My prayers are with you and your wife.
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  #15  
Old Nov 1, '07, 3:53 pm
Joannm Joannm is offline
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Default Re: Tips on fighting an annulment

Who is to say that if you fight the annulment and it is not granted that your wife will stay married to you? If you get the annulment at least you have the opprtunity to get married again and start a family. If you wife leaves you , even without the annulment, you will never have a family or a wife.
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