Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in other scriptures - Page 5

Socrates4Jesus · #61 Nov 12, '07, 10:12 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valke2

If you are reading the Hebrew scriptures, a/k/a Tanakh, and you come across the word "Muhammad", you've gone to far.

LOL! Yes. However, Christians point to many passages in the Hebrew scriptures and make strong arguments that these were predictions of the prophet Jesus (pbuh), even though they do not mention him by name.

Hence, i'm willing to look at any evidence someone might have that there are also passages in the same scriptures that predict the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), even though they do not mention him by name. Do you know of any such passages? You do not have to quote chapter and verse.

Roy5 · #62 Nov 12, '07, 10:13 am

Hi -

Gosh, I hate to sound critical, but when I read messages filled with exclusiveness written by Catholics, Muslims, or anyone else, I wonder if religion is an asset or a liability in our world today.

Jesus, as I recall, dealt with publicans, sinners, lepers, and all sorts of others with compassion and understanding. He spoke of other sheep not of this fold. He scolded the pious Pharisees because of their haughtiness toward others.

It seems to me that Jesus would want people of all faiths to get along, respecting one another. True, he said that no one cometh unto the Father but by me. I interpret that to mean by following the example he set, by living in peace and mutual respect. When he was asked how to inherit eternal life, he didn't respond with a theological treatise but gave the parable of the Good Samaritan. That would have been a perfect opportunity to set down a narrow theological road to heaven, but he avoided that. Note that the hero of the parable was not even a Jew! In fact, Samaritans were despised by Jews in that time and place.

I have been watching the gathering of the Catholic Bishops on EWTN today. While time did not permit full disclosure of the letter to be sent to the US President from the President of the Council of Bishops, I was deeply impressed by what appears to be a vigorous call for peace in Iraq and re Iran. How can we possibly follow Christ while we embrace an unnecessary, preemptive war with all its killing and destruction? In the same vein, how can we follow Christ if we promote religious exclusiveness and bigotry? I don't think we can. Remember how Jesus even said we should love our enemies?

Please keep happy and healthy - and may God bless the whole world - no exceptions!

Socrates4Jesus · #63 Nov 12, '07, 10:17 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy5

... It seems to me that Jesus would want people of all faiths to get along, respecting one another. True, he said that no one cometh unto the Father but by me. I interpret that to mean by following the example he set, by living in peace and mutual respect. ...

Well said, Roy! We should speak the truth, but always do so in love.

inJESUS · #64 Nov 12, '07, 10:39 am

Interesting discussion about bees

If Muhammad meant to talk about gender, he most probably took it from Jews as he did many things. If not, then he simply used to common female word for bees, nothing less nothing more.

Socrates4Jesus · #65 Nov 12, '07, 10:58 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

It is best that the Qur'an answer your question:

003.085
And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

H2H:

It might also help to take a closer look at how the book of the Qu'ran from which you quoted begins:

"Alif lam mim. God! There is no god but Him, the Living, the Everlasting One.

"He has revealed to you the Book with the Truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel for the guidance of mankind, and the distinction between right and wrong."
-- Al 'Imrans (3:1-4)

It appears to me that Muhammad is saying the Hebrew scriptures and the Christian scriptures are divine rather than human in origin like the Qu'ran. What do you think?

hamba2han · #66 Nov 12, '07, 11:44 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates4Jesus

H2H:

Please tell me why you trust the Qur'an?

I have listed most of the reasons why I do here but you need to read the whole thread I'm afraid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates4Jesus

It might also help to take a closer look at how the book of the Qu'ran from which you quoted begins:

"Alif lam mim. God! There is no god but Him, the Living, the Everlasting One.

"He has revealed to you the Book with the Truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Gospel for the guidance of mankind, and the distinction between right and wrong."
-- Al 'Imrans (3:1-4)

It appears to me that Muhammad is saying the Hebrew scriptures and the Christian scriptures are divine rather than human in origin like the Qur'an. What do you think?

The problem as far as Muslims are concerned is that the Torah, the Psalms and Gospel which were revealed to Moses, David and Jesus (pbut) respectively no longer exist in their original and pure form.

The Qur'an on the other hand is not only in it's original Arabic language but has remained, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same as what was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) some 1400 years ago because it was completed and authenticated by the Prophet (pbuh) himself shortly before his death and then meticulously preserved for all time by his totally devoted and beloved companions, may Allah be pleased with them.

Socrates4Jesus · #67 Nov 12, '07, 11:49 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

... The problem as far as Muslims are concerned is that the Torah, the Psalms and Gospel which were revealed to Moses, David and Jesus (pbut) respectively no longer exist in their original and pure form. ...

H2H:

Thank you for answering my questions. May i ask another?

Is your assertion that Allah was incapable of preserving the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, or are you saying that Allah chose not to preserve them and you have some objective evidence that the Torah, Psalms and Gospels are corrupted?

De Maria · #68 Nov 12, '07, 11:54 am

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

I have listed most of the reasons why I do here but you need to read the whole thread I'm afraid.

The problem as far as Muslims are concerned is that the Torah, the Psalms and Gospel which were revealed to Moses, David and Jesus (pbut) respectively no longer exist in their original and pure form.

The Qur'an on the other hand is not only in it's original Arabic language but has remained, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same as what was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) some 1400 years ago because it was completed and authenticated by the Prophet (pbuh) himself shortly before his death and then meticulously preserved for all time by his totally devoted and beloved companions, may Allah be pleased with them.

Both of the above are claims which can't be proved.

First, in order to prove that the Old and New Testament have been corrupted, they should provide authenitic copies of the original uncorrupted Old and New Testaments. But they can't. They point to the Quran's version of the Old and New Testaments, but the Quran came after both.

They are making the accusation, therefore the burden of proof is on them.

Second, they can't even prove that the Quran in use today goes back to Mohammed. The original which Mohammed authorized was burned by Uthman and he substitutred his copy. Therefore, the modern Quran is traced to Uthman, not to Mohammed.

Plain and simple. No Muslim can prove the validity of the Quran. They can simply make unsubstantiated claims based on blind faith.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Socrates4Jesus · #69 Nov 12, '07, 12:01 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

Both of the above are claims which can't be proved. ...

De Maria:

How blessed you are to have such a confident conviction! As for me, Allah has seen fit to keep me in doubt. I will have to hear what evidence H2H brings before i make up my mind.

Booklover · #70 Nov 12, '07, 12:08 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

The teachings of the previous Prophets (peace be upon them all) throughout the history of humankind were specific and applicable only to the nations and people that they were sent to.

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), on the other hand, is the 'Seal of the Prophets' and he was sent for all of humankind with the Final Revelation that will last till the end of the world.

Therefore, those who do desire to be with their Lord in Paradise and they have indeed heard the Message of Islam would no longer have the option of rejecting it .

What happened to no compulsion in religion?

Why do you keep ignoring the evil deeds done by Muhammad???

Vickie

Booklover · #71 Nov 12, '07, 12:15 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

It is best that the Qur'an answer your question:

003.085
And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Why do you accept the word of a man who approved of lying??

Vickie

Booklover · #72 Nov 12, '07, 12:21 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

The teachings of the previous Prophets (peace be upon them all) throughout the history of humankind were specific and applicable only to the nations and people that they were sent to.

Nonsense! Jesus told his apostles to make disciples of ALL the nations!

Vickie

Valke2 · #73 Nov 12, '07, 12:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates4Jesus

LOL! Yes. However, Christians point to many passages in the Hebrew scriptures and make strong arguments that these were predictions of the prophet Jesus (pbuh), even though they do not mention him by name.

Hence, i'm willing to look at any evidence someone might have that there are also passages in the same scriptures that predict the prophet Muhammad (pbuh), even though they do not mention him by name. Do you know of any such passages? You do not have to quote chapter and verse.

Not aware of anything. I know that Judaism teaches that nothing in the prophets can contradict what Moses states, as he saw all that all the prophets saw, and more.

Socrates4Jesus · #74 Nov 12, '07, 12:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hamba2han

... The Qur'an on the other hand is not only in it's original Arabic language but has remained, word for word and syllable for syllable, exactly the same as what was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) some 1400 years ago because it was completed and authenticated by the Prophet (pbuh) himself shortly before his death and then meticulously preserved for all time by his totally devoted and beloved companions, may Allah be pleased with them.

H2H:

I do appreciate your sharing why you believe what you do. What I think you are saying is that the Torah was at one time in a trustworthy state, being close enough to the original autographs to be useful as a guide to the truth about Allah and the way to Paradise.

The question, i suppose, is at what point in time did it become corrupted to the point of being untrustworthy? Perhaps Muhammad (pbuh) gives us some insight into the answer to this question, for Allah says through him:

"Are they to be compared to those that have received a revelation from their Lord, recited by a witness from Him and heralded by the Book of Moses, a guide and a blessing? These have faith in it, but the factions who deny it shall be consigned to Fire. Therefore do not doubt it. It is the truth from your Lord: Yet most have no faith."
-- The Qu'ran, Hud (11:16-18)

It seems Muhammad (pbuh) is using the present tense. That is, he is saying that the writings of Moses (pbuh) that were in existence in Muhammad's (pbuh) day were "a guide and a blessing" and "the truth from" Allah and that those who do not "have faith in it but ... deny it" will be judged by Allah.

Do you think, then that the Torah must not have been corrupted until after Muhammad (pbuh) left this earth?

inJESUS · #75 Nov 12, '07, 12:27 pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates4Jesus

H2H:

Thank you for answering my questions. May i ask another?

Is your assertion that Allah was incapable of preserving the Torah, Psalms and Gospels, or are you saying that Allah chose not to preserve them and you have some objective evidence that the Torah, Psalms and Gospels are corrupted?

yes Allah chose not to preserve all previous revelations in order to "test" humanity. When humanity failed to preserve his word, Allah decided , after thousands of years, to interfer himself in the preservation of the Quran and hence Muslims are not able to corrupt it because Allah himself interfers this time.

All the above is what you will hear from Muslims, but you will find no single Quranic verse that says the above. On the contrary, Muhammad had "valid" Jewish and Christian scripture at his time, he asked Jews and Christians to abide by them and refer to them that one wonders where did all these valid scriptures vanish all of a sudden throughout the entire world in all the different churches that existed and still exist...