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  #1  
Old Nov 10, '07, 6:04 am
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default Speaking in Tongues

Hi everyone. I am wondering about speaking in tongues. Is it a common gift today or is it a rare gift that only a few people get? I am not speaking about praying in tongues. I am talking about speaking in tongues... you know, the kind where an interpretation is needed according to the Bible? According to Scripture Catholic, speaking in tongues is a rare gift. What do you think?

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/tongues.html
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  #2  
Old Nov 10, '07, 8:27 am
DebChris DebChris is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Speaking in tongues is not as rare as it was once considered. The Charismatic Renewal of the Catholic Church began in 1967. One of the charisms of its many members is the abillity to pray in tongues, to have a prayer language in which to praise God.
The gift of tongues is a gift that the Holy Spirit gives us. Very often the words with which I might pray fall short. I really do not know what is best for me in a particular situation. By opening to the Holy Spirit, I allow Him to pray through me and for me.
For me, the gift is generally expressed in song. I may be walking and I will begin singing praises to God in a language I do not know. It is also a marvelous tool for discernment as it allows me to pray, again, in accordance with God's will. It is not I who prays but God himself who prays through me.
It is also a very humbling experience to know that the God whom the universe cannot contain is alive in my own heart, that He desires an intimate relationship with each of us.
Speaking in tongues, as I understand your question is a variation of the same gift. God may choose to speak or more often sing through me in the middle of a prayer group. I do not have the gift of interpretation, but somebody in the group will translate what I just said or sang into words that can be understood.
  #3  
Old Nov 10, '07, 8:38 am
tabcom tabcom is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

When I get asked, 'Do you believe in speaking in tongues?' I always follow with, 'what does tongues mean?', to the person asking the question. The answer usually includes Pentecostals.

The word tongues comes from the greek word glossa (gloce-sah). We get our word glossary from it. A glossary is a part of a book that defines foreign words. The miracle of speaking in tongues is not jumping up and down and saying non-sense gibber. The miracle of speaking in tongues is that the Holy Spirit was given to the gentiles, who all spoke foreign languages (tongues), and that they were able to communicate It to one another.


1Co 12:10 -
and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another {various} kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:28 -
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, {various} kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:30 -
All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

1Co 13:1 -
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

1Co 13:8 -
Love never fails; but if {there are gifts of} prophecy, they will be done away; if {there are} tongues, they will cease; if {there is} knowledge, it will be done away.

1Co 14:5 -
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but {even} more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

1Co 14:6 -
But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

1Co 14:18 -
I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;

1Co 14:21 -
In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.

1Co 14:22 -
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy {is for a sign,} not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

1Co 14:23 -
Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

1Co 14:39 -
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

  #4  
Old Nov 10, '07, 11:15 am
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabcom View Post
When I get asked, 'Do you believe in speaking in tongues?' I always follow with, 'what does tongues mean?', to the person asking the question. The answer usually includes Pentecostals.

The word tongues comes from the greek word glossa (gloce-sah). We get our word glossary from it. A glossary is a part of a book that defines foreign words. The miracle of speaking in tongues is not jumping up and down and saying non-sense gibber. The miracle of speaking in tongues is that the Holy Spirit was given to the gentiles, who all spoke foreign languages (tongues), and that they were able to communicate It to one another.


1Co 12:10 -
and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another {various} kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:28 -
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, {various} kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:30 -
All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

1Co 13:1 -
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

1Co 13:8 -
Love never fails; but if {there are gifts of} prophecy, they will be done away; if {there are} tongues, they will cease; if {there is} knowledge, it will be done away.

1Co 14:5 -
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but {even} more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

1Co 14:6 -
But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

1Co 14:18 -
I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;

1Co 14:21 -
In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.

1Co 14:22 -
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy {is for a sign,} not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

1Co 14:23 -
Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

1Co 14:39 -
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.
I agree with your definition of tongues but I believe that the gift of speaking in tongues also includes speaking a Heavenly language that nobody but the interpreter can understand.
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"The holy Rosary is a powerful weapon. Use it with confidence and you'll be amazed at the results."
--St. Josemaria Escriva

“One day, through the Rosary and the Scapular, Our Lady will save the world.”
--Saint Dominic

"Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world."
--Blessed Pope Pius IX


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  #5  
Old Nov 11, '07, 11:45 am
wisdomseeker wisdomseeker is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

i read an article from a catholic apologist in which it explain that this gift no longer exists. for Paul himself said that this gift would cease. St Augustine has said that this gift no longer existed confirmed by Aguinas. the article also says that this type of language can also be used as a judgement upon those who desobeye God's Statutes. tks God bless.
  #6  
Old Nov 11, '07, 12:05 pm
Teflon93 Teflon93 is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Speaking in tongues is either rare or common depending upon the definition.

If the definition is the Biblical one (i.e., speaking in a language known to others but not to the speaker), then it is rare.

If it is babbling to conform with the expectation of being "moved by the Spirit" in a Pentecostal or other charismatic service, it is as common as those services. When I went Pentecostal services, someone could reliably be expected to do so at least once a month, and on all high occasions such as Christmas or Easter or New Year's.
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  #7  
Old Nov 13, '07, 10:58 am
steve99 steve99 is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabcom View Post
When I get asked, 'Do you believe in speaking in tongues?' I always follow with, 'what does tongues mean?', to the person asking the question. The answer usually includes Pentecostals.

The word tongues comes from the greek word glossa (gloce-sah). We get our word glossary from it. A glossary is a part of a book that defines foreign words. The miracle of speaking in tongues is not jumping up and down and saying non-sense gibber. The miracle of speaking in tongues is that the Holy Spirit was given to the gentiles, who all spoke foreign languages (tongues), and that they were able to communicate It to one another.


I’ve heard this explanation before but it doesn’t work.

Paul did not need to speak foreign languages. Greek was the common tongue throughout the civilised world. All the NT was written Greek, and even the OT was translated into Greek.

Consider Acts 10:34-46: (Peter & Cornelius)
"Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly ………………………forgiveness of sins through his name.” While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. "

They could understand Peter perfectly well & presumably Peter could understand them since he had been talking to Cornelius before this passage. So why the gift of tongues if it is just the ability to speak a foreign language. Who was Cornelius speaking to? Well it tells us - he was praising God. So he was speaking a language God understood which is what tongues is.

The take Acts 19:1-7
While Apollos was in
Corinth, Paul passed through the interior regions and came to Ephesus, where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” They replied, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” Then he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They answered, “Into John’s baptism.” Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied—altogether there were about twelve of them.

Again Paul and they could converse perfectly well. No need for foreign languages. But they spoke in tongues. Who to? To God - "and prophesied" - you see God was speaking to them, so there was a conversation with God going on. God understood their speaking in tongues.
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  #8  
Old Nov 13, '07, 11:04 am
homewardbound homewardbound is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

I have never experienced any speaking in tongues. I'm really not sure how rare or whatever it is, because people's definition of tongues differs.

I'm not one who believes in tongues as a bunch of nonsense that one one understands that just sounds like babble. To me, people who do that and say they are speaking in tongues are just doing it for attention, because they think they have to speak in tongues.

I do believe the gift exists, but I think its pretty rare. Either that or many people are just like me and unwilling to believe it can happen to us, therefore we don't get it.
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  #9  
Old Nov 13, '07, 11:06 am
steve99 steve99 is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabcom View Post


1Co 12:10 -
and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another {various} kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

1Co 12:28 -
And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, {various} kinds of tongues.

1Co 12:30 -
All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?

1Co 13:1 -
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

1Co 13:8 -
Love never fails; but if {there are gifts of} prophecy, they will be done away; if {there are} tongues, they will cease; if {there is} knowledge, it will be done away.

1Co 14:5 -
Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but {even} more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

1Co 14:6 -
But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?

1Co 14:18 -
I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;

1Co 14:21 -
In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.

1Co 14:22 -
So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy {is for a sign,} not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

1Co 14:23 -
Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

1Co 14:39 -
Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

You missed out 1Cor 14:2
“the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to a human being but to God, for no-one listens; he utters mysteries in the spirit.”
Was that inconvenient to your theory?

And you missed out verse 4:

“Whoever speaks in a tongue build himself up”
Nothing to do with speaking foreign languages to others.

Also remember Romans 8: 26-27 “Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”
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  #10  
Old Nov 13, '07, 11:07 am
homewardbound homewardbound is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
I’ve heard this explanation before but it doesn’t work.

Paul did not need to speak foreign languages. Greek was the common tongue throughout the civilised world. All the NT was written Greek, and even the OT was translated into Greek.

Consider Acts 10:34-46: (Peter & Cornelius)
"Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly ………………………forgiveness of sins through his name.” While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. "

They could understand Peter perfectly well & presumably Peter could understand them since he had been talking to Cornelius before this passage. So why the gift of tongues if it is just the ability to speak a foreign language. Who was Cornelius speaking to? Well it tells us - he was praising God. So he was speaking a language God understood which is what tongues is.

The take Acts 19:1-7
While Apollos was in
Corinth, Paul passed through the interior regions and came to Ephesus, where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” They replied, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” Then he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They answered, “Into John’s baptism.” Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied—altogether there were about twelve of them.

Again Paul and they could converse perfectly well. No need for foreign languages. But they spoke in tongues. Who to? To God - "and prophesied" - you see God was speaking to them, so there was a conversation with God going on. God understood their speaking in tongues.
None of that says they weren't speaking an actual language though. Obviously it was a language if other's understood it.

Many times though people will stand up and speak in "tongues" and no one, including the one speaking, will have any clue whats being said or going on. Thats not a gift of tongues, thats just pretending. There's a difference.
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  #11  
Old Nov 13, '07, 11:10 am
thechrismyster thechrismyster is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

well, i think....wimmmm wiammmm iam loooop pol Aliquam accumsan tellus vel ligula. Duis purus pede, tristique vel, blandit id, vehicula quis, nulla. Aenean facilisis tempus sem. Pellentesque libero erat, tincidunt non, ultrices ac, congue et, risus. Etiam justo. Sed id massa. Aliquam fringilla molestie enim. Cras hendrerit nibh in sapien. Aenean nonummy. Aliquam placerat justo sollicitudin arcu. Nullam nec libero rhoncus risus faucibus pellentesque. Ut congue diam mattis eros. Phasellus felis mi, blandit nec, consectetuer vitae, mollis sit amet, mi. Nullam luctus, diam ut bibendum hendrerit, eros orci volutpat neque, vitae adipiscing pede justo at orci. Proin eleifend.
Mauris fringilla suscipit risus. Proin cursus. Duis neque. Nunc a leo eu pede scelerisque tempus. Sed ac lorem id diam bibendum dapibus. Aliquam erat volutpat. Phasellus a diam ac odio venenatis iaculis. Nulla sollicitudin nisi sed metus faucibus consequat. Aenean orci sapien, rutrum eget, scelerisque id, sollicitudin ut, justo. In vulputate consectetuer nulla. Etiam metus arcu, sagittis et, molestie at, blandit ut, arcu. Nullam dolor purus, hendrerit ac, sagittis at, blandit nec, neque. Cras non neque at nisl adipiscing pretium. Fusce laoreet diam eget nunc. Integer felis.




(i couldn't resist the temptation )
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  #12  
Old Nov 13, '07, 11:20 am
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Mannyfit75 Mannyfit75 is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by thechrismyster View Post
well, i think....wimmmm wiammmm iam loooop pol Aliquam accumsan tellus vel ligula. Duis purus pede, tristique vel, blandit id, vehicula quis, nulla. Aenean facilisis tempus sem. Pellentesque libero erat, tincidunt non, ultrices ac, congue et, risus. Etiam justo. Sed id massa. Aliquam fringilla molestie enim. Cras hendrerit nibh in sapien. Aenean nonummy. Aliquam placerat justo sollicitudin arcu. Nullam nec libero rhoncus risus faucibus pellentesque. Ut congue diam mattis eros. Phasellus felis mi, blandit nec, consectetuer vitae, mollis sit amet, mi. Nullam luctus, diam ut bibendum hendrerit, eros orci volutpat neque, vitae adipiscing pede justo at orci. Proin eleifend.
Mauris fringilla suscipit risus. Proin cursus. Duis neque. Nunc a leo eu pede scelerisque tempus. Sed ac lorem id diam bibendum dapibus. Aliquam erat volutpat. Phasellus a diam ac odio venenatis iaculis. Nulla sollicitudin nisi sed metus faucibus consequat. Aenean orci sapien, rutrum eget, scelerisque id, sollicitudin ut, justo. In vulputate consectetuer nulla. Etiam metus arcu, sagittis et, molestie at, blandit ut, arcu. Nullam dolor purus, hendrerit ac, sagittis at, blandit nec, neque. Cras non neque at nisl adipiscing pretium. Fusce laoreet diam eget nunc. Integer felis.




(i couldn't resist the temptation )

What language is that?
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Old Nov 13, '07, 12:44 pm
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
You missed out 1Cor 14:2
“the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to a human being but to God, for no-one listens; he utters mysteries in the spirit.”

And you missed out verse 4:

“Whoever speaks in a tongue build himself up”
Nothing to do with speaking foreign languages to others.
What exactly is the context of these verses?
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Old Nov 13, '07, 3:13 pm
rtconstant rtconstant is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
I’ve heard this explanation before but it doesn’t work.

Paul did not need to speak foreign languages. Greek was the common tongue throughout the civilised world. All the NT was written Greek, and even the OT was translated into Greek.

Consider Acts 10:34-46: (Peter & Cornelius)
"Then Peter began to speak to them: “I truly ………………………forgiveness of sins through his name.” While Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the word. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astounded that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles, for they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. "

They could understand Peter perfectly well & presumably Peter could understand them since he had been talking to Cornelius before this passage. So why the gift of tongues if it is just the ability to speak a foreign language. Who was Cornelius speaking to? Well it tells us - he was praising God. So he was speaking a language God understood which is what tongues is.

The take Acts 19:1-7
While Apollos was in
Corinth, Paul passed through the interior regions and came to Ephesus, where he found some disciples. He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you became believers?” They replied, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” Then he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They answered, “Into John’s baptism.” Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, in Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied—altogether there were about twelve of them.

Again Paul and they could converse perfectly well. No need for foreign languages. But they spoke in tongues. Who to? To God - "and prophesied" - you see God was speaking to them, so there was a conversation with God going on. God understood their speaking in tongues.
See the problem with this view is that while one can make somewhat of an argument based on an interpretation of scirpture that it is possible that these "unknown tongues" exist, it is really never described. The only time that we see tongues "in action" in Scripture is when it was used to communicate to those who would not understand otherwise.

Also we see no evidence of this "gift" in the early Church, the Church of the Middle Ages, or even the modern Church until the Pentecostal movement which was initiated on Azusa St. in California in 1906. The Charismatic movement sprang from this event especially propagated by Fletcher, and eventually landed in Duquesne University in 1967. The only time the ECF's mention tongues it is pretty clear that they are referencing the traditional understanding of the gift which is that it communicated the Gospel to those who did not know it in a language they could understand.

Also even if one uses the verses in the Bible to justify the existance of an unknown tongue or holy language etc. It still doesn't add up. The Bible also states that tongues are meant to benefit the unbeliever. The modern novalty doesn't do this. It is very much for the benefit of other believers. So at best it is a sign that maybe the person making the sounds could maybe have the gift of tongues. Of course they could also be just making random sounds no one really knows, certainly not the unbelievers.

It seems strange to me that this innovation of the evangelical Pentecostal movement half a century latter finds itself in a Catholic institution and somehow looks just like the evangelical version (sans the bad theology thank God) and yet we're supposed to believe it is wholly original. The fruits of the evangelical version of the Charismatic movement is almost completely bad. So why would a supposed genuine charismatic renewal pretty much look just like the evangelical one that preceded it by 60 years?
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  #15  
Old Nov 13, '07, 7:47 pm
thechrismyster thechrismyster is offline
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Default Re: Speaking in Tongues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
What language is that?
Lorem ipsum is the beginning of a pseudo-Latin passage commonly used as placeholder text when a graphic designer dummies up a page layout. It's intended to show how the type will look before the copy is available. I say pseudo-Latin because though the passage contains recognizable Latin words, they don't seem to add up to anything, and some are just jabberwocky--there's no Latin word lorem, for one thing. Lorem ipsum is only the beginning, by the way. The text continues lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, etc.

In the graphic design business, nonsense filler like this is known, somewhat incongruously, as "greeking," presumably because "it's Greek to me." It was available for many years on adhesive sheets in different sizes and typefaces from a company called Letraset. In pre-desktop-publishing days, a designer would cut the stuff out with an X-acto knife and stick it on the page. When computers came along, Aldus included lorem ipsum in its PageMaker publishing software, and you now see it wherever designers are at work, including all over the Web.

A few years ago someone wrote to Before & After, a desktop publishing magazine (www.pagelab.com), asking what lorem ipsum meant. "It's not Latin, though it looks like it, and it actually says nothing," the editors replied. "Its 'words' loosely approximate the frequency with which letters occur in English, which is why at a glance it looks pretty real."

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/010216.html

read all about it here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum
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