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  #1  
Old Nov 24, '07, 10:58 pm
7777777Now 7777777Now is offline
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Default 3 different types of Lutherans?

Hi,

Just talked with some lutherans and they mentioned there are 3 different types. Can someone tell me the differences between these 3 different types of lutherans?

Thanks!
J
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Old Nov 24, '07, 11:27 pm
skatepixie skatepixie is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

For what it's worth, I'm a Catholic at a Lutheran (LCMS) university...this is how it was explained to me.

Wisconsin Synod-the most conservitive/traditional of the three. I really don't know much about them.

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS)-kind of middle of the road. Many of them actually seem pretty tollerant of Catholics, lol.

Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA)-liberal. Women "pastors", gay relationships=okay, etc.
  #3  
Old Nov 25, '07, 12:24 am
Alexius Alexius is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7777777Now View Post
Hi,

Just talked with some lutherans and they mentioned there are 3 different types. Can someone tell me the differences between these 3 different types of lutherans?

Thanks!
J
Actually, there are more than three, but the three skatepixie listed are the major three. Here is a brief list of them:

The American Association of Lutheran Churches:

Founded in 1987; Reason: did not want to merge with LCA and AELC

Doctrines to note: Baptismal regeneration, Real Presence, can fall from grace

www.taalc.com

Association of Free Lutheran Congregations:

Founded in 1962; Reason: did not want to merge with LFC and ALC

Doctrines to note: monthly communion, believer can fall into apostasy and lose salvation

www.aflc.org

Church of the Lutheran Brethran of America:

Founded in 1900; Reason: union to support global outreach

Doctrines to note: Total Depravity, secured salvation but will perish if fall into disbelief, Baptismal regeneration and Real Presence

www.clba.org

Evangelical Lutheran Church in America:

Founded in 1987; Reason: merger of many independent churches

Doctrines to note: Bible is not inerrant in science and history, infant baptism, Real Presence

www.elca.org

Evangelical Lutheran Synod:

Founded in 1918; Reason: did not want to merge with Norwegian LC

Doctrines to note: Monergism, true believer will not fall, Real Presence, all forms of Millenialism rejected

www.EvLuthSyn.org--defunct

www.evangelicallutheransynod.org

The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod:

Founded in 1847; Reason: escape European Rationalism

Doctrines to note: Infant baptism and regeration, Limited Atonement, Monergism--but unbeliever guilty of rejecting the Spirit

www.lcms.org

Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod:

Founded in 1850; Reason: to support German immigrants

Doctrines to note: Papacy is the fulfilled Anti-Christ, rejection of OSAS

www.wels.net

Source: "The Complete Guide to Christian Denominations" Ron Rhodes, Harvest House, 2005

I hope this helps...

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius
  #4  
Old Nov 25, '07, 7:13 am
Irish Melkite Irish Melkite is offline
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Smile Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

See Lutheran Synods for a very detailed discussion

Many years,

Neil
  #5  
Old Nov 25, '07, 7:51 am
Semper Fi Semper Fi is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7777777Now View Post
Hi,

Just talked with some lutherans and they mentioned there are 3 different types. Can someone tell me the differences between these 3 different types of lutherans?

Thanks!
J
Yes, and there are also some Lutherans who are basically just schismatic Catholics, not Protestants. It really depends on which doctrines of Luther's they accept... he had so many different views throughout his lifetime it's no doubt it's hard for his many offshoots to keep up.
  #6  
Old Nov 25, '07, 8:23 am
XPICTIANOC XPICTIANOC is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

there are so-called high church lutheranism and old-lutheran. In Sweden is catholic movement in Church of Sweden.

Lutheranism is like anglicanism, you could be in pietism movement or in traditional.
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Old Nov 25, '07, 9:29 am
suupah suupah is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

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Originally Posted by XPICTIANOC View Post
there are so-called high church lutheranism and old-lutheran. In Sweden is catholic movement in Church of Sweden.

Lutheranism is like anglicanism, you could be in pietism movement or in traditional.
which branch is closest to the original lutheran form and faith?
  #8  
Old Nov 25, '07, 10:04 am
Steadfast Steadfast is offline
 
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

Skatepixie has given a good overview...

I would say though that the LCMS is not so much moderate as conservative, it just looks moderate next to the Wisconsin Synod which is really, really conservative.

As for which one is closest to the "original lutheran form and faith", it would depend on who you ask, but I would also point out that there are no huge doctrinal differences between conservative Lutherans, their differences usually have more to do with polity, church government and inter-church relations.

So, doctrinally, there are really only two varieties of Lutheran, the conservative confessional variety and the mainstream, more liberal variety.

But there does appear to be a growing high church movement as well. My concern with them is that like Anglicanism, the interest will be more in form and ritual than in confessional commitment which for Lutherans is very important.

In short, my concern is that High Church American Lutherans may become little more than Anglicans - Lutheran Rite.

It used to be said that there is no such thing as a liberal Lutheran, but that was back in the 50's.

It's different now.
  #9  
Old Nov 25, '07, 10:11 am
Steadfast Steadfast is offline
 
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

So, I guess it could be said that there are three varieties but they may not be the varieties your friend had in mind, rather than denominations they are represented by movements within the Augsburg confession:

1. The mainstream "liberal" church movement. This church is committed to the use of a higher critical hermeneutic in deal with the Bible such that it is said to be a document which "contains" the Word of God rather than actually being the Word of God. These Lutherans tend to reject inerrancy and some have taken softer stands on homosexuality, abortion, female ministry, etc.

2. The Confessional Evangelical Lutheran movement. These Lutherans take a very high view of Scripture, believing it to be the very Word of God, inerrant and fully inspired. The take the Lutheran confessional documents to be true not inasmuch as they conform to Scripture but because they do. They tend to be against things like homosexuality, abortion and female clergy, believing,a s they do that the Bible is very clear on these issues.

3. The High Church Movement. These Lutherans place a very high value on liturgy and on a sense of historical connection with the universal church. They will use incense and bells, ornate chasubles and so on and will often endorse certain mariological doctrines about which other Lutherans have often expressed doubt. They tend to be conservative on the moral issues of the day, but their preference for form may precede their confessional and biblical convictions such that, like many Anglicans, they could be capable of movement on these moral issues as long as some historical or liturgical commitment is maintained.

In numbers, in the US, I still think the majority of Lutherans are clustered around the second group with a significant minority around the first. The third group is small but growing.

The First Group is mostly the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, but undoubtedly there are a few of similar belief in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod where they would be a tiny, uncomfortable minority.

The Second Group would be in the LCMS as well as the Wisconsin Synod and most of the smaller churches, but there is a pretty vocal minority of these folks in the ELCA as well.

The Third Group is in both the LCMS and the ELCA, the numbers are very fuzzy.
  #10  
Old Nov 25, '07, 10:14 am
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Madaglan Madaglan is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfast:
As for which one is closest to the "original lutheran form and faith", it would depend on who you ask, but I would also point out that there are no huge doctrinal differences between conservative Lutherans, their differences usually have more to do with polity, church government and inter-church relations.
The confessional Lutherans (WELS, LCMS, ELS) follow the Book of Concord, which lays out points of doctrine. This minimizes doctrinal divergences. From my understanding, the differences between LCMS and WELS has to do with church ministry, whether the pastor is the only one with a God-given ministry, or if there are other such ministers in the Church as well--as least that's how I understand it.
  #11  
Old Nov 25, '07, 10:20 am
Steadfast Steadfast is offline
 
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

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Originally Posted by Madaglan View Post
The confessional Lutherans (WELS, LCMS, ELS) follow the Book of Concord, which lays out points of doctrine. This minimizes doctrinal divergences. From my understanding, the differences between LCMS and WELS has to do with church ministry, whether the pastor is the only one with a God-given ministry, or if there are other such ministers in the Church as well--as least that's how I understand it.
You're right...

Its a fairly abstruse point of Lutheran history in the US having to do with a debate between tow 19th century German Americans named Walther and Loehe.
  #12  
Old Nov 25, '07, 12:15 pm
ralphinal ralphinal is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

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Originally Posted by Steadfast View Post
You're right...

Its a fairly abstruse point of Lutheran history in the US having to do with a debate between tow 19th century German Americans named Walther and Loehe.
Don't the Wisconson Synod have some issues with secualr clubs and groups? Seems like I was told this by Missouri people before.
  #13  
Old Nov 25, '07, 12:20 pm
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Madaglan Madaglan is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralphinal:

Don't the Wisconson Synod have some issues with secualr clubs and groups? Seems like I was told this by Missouri people before.
The YMCA was once a great threat to confessional Lutheranism.
  #14  
Old Nov 25, '07, 12:43 pm
Steadfast Steadfast is offline
 
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

WELS is against the Boy Scouts as well.

LCMS is okay with Scouting and the Y, but they join their brethren in Wisconsin in being opposed to membership in secret societies (Masons, Elks, Soroptimists, etc)
  #15  
Old Nov 25, '07, 1:37 pm
ralphinal ralphinal is offline
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Default Re: 3 different types of Lutherans?

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Originally Posted by Steadfast View Post
WELS is against the Boy Scouts as well.

LCMS is okay with Scouting and the Y, but they join their brethren in Wisconsin in being opposed to membership in secret societies (Masons, Elks, Soroptimists, etc)
Leaving out the secret societies, what is the issue here? Does it apply to military enlistment as well?
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