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  #1  
Old Dec 4, '07, 5:11 pm
Abbadon Abbadon is offline
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Default Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

It is not that i don't trust god, i do so with all my heart, i just don't trust mankind, for mankind they have to earn my trust, as does the authors of the bible. I see far to many flaws in it for me to take it that it was written through the inspiration of the holy spirit.

If I could put this at peace i think i would truly become a catholic, instead of simply going to church on Sundays and being apart of youth groups and catholic activities. Okay anyway here it goes

The Bible

...glorifies a mass murdering sexual fiend (David).
Records several events that don't match with historical, archaeological, scientific data and logical common sense.
Noahs Ark, Creation, Jesus causing a riot in the temple (I don't remember who said this but "Early century Palastine is one of the most well documented time periods, a man starts a riot in the main temple and he doesn't even get a mention but several other prohets and son of god wannabes do"). Jesus birth story, the killing of the babies don't match the sensus time but something like 50 years.
I realised saying all this i should link to the supports but its been a while since i read these books. Maybe someone else knows? The king david one is in the bible or if you prefer
Oh i forgot to mention approves of slavery. According to the bible i can keep a slave from a neighboring country (New Zealand perhaps?)


The book was compiled by Rome and some texts were kept, others that they didn't want, like say a woman writing and keeping a record were stricken only to be found again today.
The books were written by hand, then over time copies were written again and again, things could have changed mistakes could have been made. Perhaps they changed details on purpose. How would anyone really know? Perhaps during the compilation any parts that were far to outlandish like jesus using his powers as a child to play pranks on people like turning them into a goat would have been left out. I honestly don't trust the Roman Empire at all...

Then comes all the tradition. There are more saints and specific gaurdian angels than i can count. A saint for healing a saint for study a saint for this an angel for that. And people pray to specific saints for things instead of god, for me this is just like praying to Baset instead of praying to Isis. I mean who needs more gods and demi gods when you have saints.

All the stolen dates and rituals from other religions predating Christianity.

Son of god born December 25th died was buried and on the third day rose again, Mithrias.

Imagery and ideal of Isis is what we invisage mary as, have you seen Isis holding baby hourus then compared it to mary holding baby jesus?

The Godess Oester, aka Easter, that is actually her holiday. She represents new life with an egg that was colored, hidden and found. She also turned a small bird into a rabbit to entratain little children, an easter rabbit.

Zoroastrians had the concept of a single god Mazda (zoom zoom), far before the single god Yhawey

The code of hamarabi predate the old testemant ten comandments.

Then comes the things that the church did that i can't forgive and i think they should apologise for.

The crusades, the witch burning (trial by water and by fire which was ridiculous) and also the land stealing during the "apocolypse 1000 A.D

If most of that could be rectified i think i could finaly truely become a catholic.
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  #2  
Old Dec 4, '07, 5:33 pm
TOME TOME is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Abbadon,
Reading your post I began to feel like an parent whose child just entering the first stages of puberty begins to ask serious question about sex because my first inclination is to respond by giving you a book and telling you to read it. It's not that I do not think I have some answers but I know there are others whose answers are so much better.

Perhaps your question should be "I don't trust Christianity or Catholicism" because it is based on the Bible but more from your personal experience.

So I will turn to the tried and true method of giving you a book and asking you to read. Actually there are two books, both written by Pope Benedict XVI a while back when he was Cardinal Ratzinger to the world. The first is an easy read and it also ties in with the Advent season. It is "What it Means to Be a Christian" (Ignatius Press). If you find this word interesting enough then I would suggest a second work, but this one is more involved and must be read slowly, it is "Introduction to Christianity" (Ignatius Press).

I may be reflecting my own prejudice because of what I was able to get from these two works, but hopefully if you choose to take up my suggestion you will come away with some of the answers you are seeking.
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  #3  
Old Dec 4, '07, 5:34 pm
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Holly3278 Holly3278 is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

The Bible contains many fulfilled prophecies and is very accurate. To me, that alone is enough for me to trust the Bible. Actually, I trust the Bible on faith alone. You should too.
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  #4  
Old Dec 4, '07, 5:47 pm
TheOneTrueFred TheOneTrueFred is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

I'm sure someone's already writing or planning a lengthy reply to the body of your post, so I'll just knock out the easy points so others don't have to bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbadon View Post
All the stolen dates and rituals from other religions predating Christianity.

Son of god born December 25th died was buried and on the third day rose again, Mithrias.
You can't steal a date. Christians celebrated the nativity as December 25th since very early in our history, considered a possible birthdate as early as 221 and a celebrated as such as early as 354. That's the upper limit for when it could have been acknowledged, not the earliest possible. In any case, our use of Dec 25th is simply to mark it on our calendar, whether or not Christ was born on that day really makes no difference - especially since the Bible doesn't specify a day.

Quote:
Imagery and ideal of Isis is what we invisage mary as, have you seen Isis holding baby hourus then compared it to mary holding baby jesus?
Compare it to a picture of any mother holding her child. In fact, holding their children is one of the most common things mothers do. Why make such a reach for this connection?

Quote:
The Godess Oester, aka Easter, that is actually her holiday. She represents new life with an egg that was colored, hidden and found. She also turned a small bird into a rabbit to entratain little children, an easter rabbit.
We celebrate the resurrection of Christ around the same time of year - after passover, which was pretty close to the solstice anyway. This doesn't mean they're connected. The proper name of the holiday is usually rendered some derivation of "pascha" in most other languages - Germanic languages like ours used the same term for the holiday they already had around the same time of year. The rabbit and egg aren't part of Catholicism or any derivation of Christianity, it's a folk custom that never died in some countries.

Quote:
Zoroastrians had the concept of a single god Mazda (zoom zoom), far before the single god Yhawey
It's next to impossible to date Zoroaster - tradition ranges anywhere from 10,000 BC to 600 BC. Even assuming the extremely unlikely earliest date, so what? We're not trying to score points for originality - nor have we ever said that nobody could come to the same conclusions we have, especially that close to our first interactions with God. Check out the old Catholic Encyclopedia articles on the Avesta to see some more perspective on Zoroastrianism.

Quote:
The code of hamarabi predate the old testemant ten comandments.
The ten commandments never claims to be the oldest set of laws in existence. Why care?

Quote:
Then comes the things that the church did that i can't forgive and i think they should apologise for.

The crusades, the witch burning (trial by water and by fire which was ridiculous) and also the land stealing during the "apocolypse 1000 A.D
We already apologized for the crusades, not much more we can do than that. As for the witch burning, it was a lot more uncommon that most people think. Even if it was popular - what do you expect from people a thousand years ago, reason and patience? Putting it all on the Church when the vast majority of the population couldn't even read and thought disease was best treated by bleeding is quite unfair.

Quote:
If most of that could be rectified i think i could finaly truely become a catholic.
I don't think I covered most of it, but this thread will grow.
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  #5  
Old Dec 4, '07, 7:36 pm
Abbadon Abbadon is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

I fear i wrote far to many things for one thread... I'll leave responses for a while but to this i say

Quote:
Compare it to a picture of any mother holding her child. In fact, holding their children is one of the most common things mothers do. Why make such a reach for this connection?
Thats actually a really good point i can't belive i never came to that, i was just looking at the two depictions and never even thought about that any mother and child would have been drawn so. It's just throughout history books and documentaries i haven't seen many mother son imagery like that and the two that I did see were ridiculously close, identical in pose.
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  #6  
Old Dec 4, '07, 7:49 pm
Abbadon Abbadon is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
We already apologized for the crusades, not much more we can do than that. As for the witch burning, it was a lot more uncommon that most people think. Even if it was popular - what do you expect from people a thousand years ago, reason and patience? Putting it all on the Church when the vast majority of the population couldn't even read and thought disease was best treated by bleeding is quite unfair.
Wow they really did it, the pope said, I'm sorry we were wrong. The church actually said they were wrong. I'm just reading up on it now, i had a debate here a while ago about how the crusades were wrong and everyone just defended it and was like the church never does anything wrong, ultimate line of god etc... I never knew they apologized for it. But damn this actually goes a long way to restoring my trust in christianity...

Yea but you see it was christianity that deamonised every other relegion. Witchcraft isn't real in the first place, otherwise you would see a whole bunch of nerds stop rolling d20 dice and playing NWN2 and pick up a wiji board, i know i would i'd love to cast a mass missile or a fireball. But any pagan relegion was deamonised massacred and removed, then the Inquisition went around getting rid of whoever they wanted. The church played a great part in putting the idea of all other relegions are evil in the heads of the people below... All for thier own power...

I should probably mention that the crusades were nessacerry and i agree with them, just the church shouldn't have backed it and the pope shouldn't have given his blessing making it a holy war rather than the true pre emptive tactical manouver that it was... which was needed to defend Europe... Honestly i'd hate to think of an Islamic scandanavia
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  #7  
Old Dec 4, '07, 8:16 pm
TheOneTrueFred TheOneTrueFred is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbadon View Post
Yea but you see it was christianity that deamonised every other relegion. Witchcraft isn't real in the first place, otherwise you would see a whole bunch of nerds stop rolling d20 dice and playing NWN2 and pick up a wiji board, i know i would i'd love to cast a mass missile or a fireball. But any pagan relegion was deamonised massacred and removed, then the Inquisition went around getting rid of whoever they wanted. The church played a great part in putting the idea of all other relegions are evil in the heads of the people below... All for thier own power...
Dig a little deeper. The actual scope of the inquisition was much more limited than the popular perception. Click here, here, and especially here.
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  #8  
Old Dec 5, '07, 6:26 am
richardeekw richardeekw is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

[quote=Abbadon;3044442]

It is not that i don't trust god, i do so with all my heart, i just don't trust mankind,
(This includes you, Sir!)

for mankind they have to earn my trust, as does the authors of the bible.
(They do not and you have a "free Will". I suggest you read "Where we got the Bible" available at
[url]http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/deuteros/graham_contents.html)[/url
]


I see far to many flaws in it for me to take it that it was written through the inspiration of the holy spirit.
(I suppose you expect God to be a "dictating" to the evangelish what to write in the Bible?)
My understanding is that the Muslims believe that the Koran is dictated to Mohammad. Try commenting against it and it may be a quick way to meet your God!- Amen


If I could put this at peace i think i would truly become a catholic, instead of simply going to church on Sundays and being apart of youth groups and catholic activities. Okay anyway here it goes
(It seems to me that you are already a disciple of Loraine Bottner in his work "Roman Catholicism". If you are really serious, BE SPECIFIC with your question and post to any Catholic apologist at Catholic Radio or EWTN for a clear response. Seek for TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free.)
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  #9  
Old Dec 5, '07, 7:49 am
Newbie2 Newbie2 is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbadon View Post
If most of that could be rectified i think i could finaly truely become a catholic.
Take a little bit at a time; I used to be completely baffled by all of the things that Catholicism encompasses, but dedicided to chip away at them piece by piece. Fifteen years after converting, I'm still chipping away. There's just SO much history and tradition, it's difficult to understand it all.

The bible is a difficult set of books to understand. It's part history, part narrative, part allegory, etc. etc. and it's difficult sometimes to sort out which is which. Learned theologians discuss (argue) constantly about translations, a letter or word here and there, what did the author intend, etc.

The best way to read scripture is with help...of the Holy Spirit, that is. Pray before you read. Get a good Catholic Biblical commentary, there are lots of them; they range from very simple to very theologically complex.

Above all, try to ask the question, "What is this text saying to me?" when you read.

For example, was the earth created in six days or six million years? Doesn't really matter, does it? What matters is the message of the text that God indeed created it. Did Jesus feed 4 or 5 thousand people? Does it matter? The point is that he miraculously fed them.

The "Catholic" stuff is a bit difficult as well. Take one thing at a time, for example, the Saints; why should we ask for their intercession? Why do we need them to pray for us when we can pray straight to God?

Check out the Apologetics resources on this site, too.

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  #10  
Old Dec 5, '07, 10:32 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbadon View Post
It is not that i don't trust god, i do so with all my heart, i just don't trust mankind, for mankind they have to earn my trust, as does the authors of the bible. I see far to many flaws in it for me to take it that it was written through the inspiration of the holy spirit.
Frankly, it sounds like someone has been hearing the atheist bible handbook being read to them. How exactly would the authors of the NT earn your trust? They all died for what they believe. They all were with Jesus from the beginning. They were taught by Jesus directly. Jesus told them what OT scriptures meant.

As a historian, the fact that their accounts do not jive word for word in parallel accounts makes me believe what was written is accurate history. If those accounts matched word for word I would dismiss them as made up.

Luke 24:32
They asked each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?"

Luke 24:45
Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.

Quote:
If I could put this at peace i think i would truly become a catholic, instead of simply going to church on Sundays and being apart of youth groups and catholic activities. Okay anyway here it goes

The Bible

...glorifies a mass murdering sexual fiend (David).
Frankly, the scriptures record man's shortcomings. Even though David sinned, he also repented. I suggest you read the book of Psalms to see his heart at work. Are you perfect? Why would you expect those in scripture to be perfect? without sin?
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  #11  
Old Dec 5, '07, 10:34 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
Records several events that don't match with historical, archaeological, scientific data and logical common sense.
I suggest, you get some books on archaeolical digs. Start by reading Pitchards Anicent Texts Related to the OT, it is around a thousand pages. There is a scripture index in back. As for science, the bible does NOT claim to be a science book. It was written in everday observational language.

Quote:
Noahs Ark,
I think this was a local flood, the hebrew word for "earth" simply means land.

Books you should read are,

Noah's Flood the new scientific discoveries about the even that changed history by William Ryan and Walter Pitman they give the scienctific evendence for a local flood.

Genesis One and the Origin of the Earth by Robert Newman

The Biblical Flood by Young
The Genesis Debate by Ronald Youngblood

Likely best local flood authors I seen.

The Christian View of Science and Scripture by Bernard Ramm

He covers a lot of science questions related to scripture, he gives a summary of the case for a local flood.

Quote:
Creation,
You likely are thinking of young earth creationists. There are Christians who believe that God used evolution. You don't have to accept their INTERPRETATION of science and scripture as gospel truth, it is not.

American Scientific Affiliation
http://www.asa3.org/asa/resources/
http://www.asa3.org/index.html

Affiliation of Christian Geologists
http://www.wheaton.edu/ACG/
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  #12  
Old Dec 5, '07, 10:36 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
Jesus causing a riot in the temple (I don't remember who said this but "Early century Palastine is one of the most well documented time periods, a man starts a riot in the main temple and he doesn't even get a mention but several other prohets and son of god wannabes do"). Jesus birth story, the killing of the babies don't match the sensus time but something like 50 years.
It was not a riot, Jesus simply cased out some dishonest money changers from the outer court yard of the temple. And, yes there were non-christian historians who did write about Jesus in passing which is what one would expect from someone who does not believe in Jeus as the Messiah.

Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament: Books: Frederick Fyvie Bruce by Frederick Fyvie Bruce.

here is just one reference to Jesus outside the NT,
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Old Dec 5, '07, 10:37 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
Pliny to Trajan:

It is my custom, Sire, to refer to you in all cases where I am in doubt, for who can better clear up difficulties and inform me? I have never been present at any legal examination of the Christians, and I do not know, therefore, what are the usual penalties passed upon them, or the limits of those penalties, or how searching an inquiry should be made. I have hesitated a great deal in considering whether any distinctions should be drawn according to the ages of the accused; whether the weak should be punished as severely as the more robust, or whether the man who has once been a Christian gained anything by recanting? Again, whether the name of being a Christian, even though otherwise innocent of crime, should be punished, or only the crimes that gather around it?

In the meantime, this is the plan which I have adopted in the case of those Christians who have been brought before me. I ask them whether they are Christians, if they say "Yes," then I repeat the question the second time, and also a third -- warning them of the penalties involved; and if they persist, I order them away to prison. For I do not doubt that -- be their admitted crime what it may -- their pertinacity and inflexible obstinacy surely ought to be punished.

There were others who showed similar mad folly, whom I reserved to be sent to Rome, as they were Roman citizens. Later, as is commonly the case, the mere fact of my entertaining the question led to a multiplying of accusations and a variety of cases were brought before me. An anonymous pamphlet was issued, containing a number of names of alleged Christians. Those who denied that they were or had been Christians and called upon the gods with the usual formula, reciting the words after me, and those who offered incense and wine before your image -- which I had ordered to be brought forward for this purpose, along with the regular statues of the gods -- all such I considered acquitted -- especially as they cursed the name of Christ, which it is said bona fide Christians cannot be induced to do.

Still others there were, whose names were supplied by an informer. These first said they were Christians, then denied it, insisting they had been, "but were so no longer"; some of them having "recanted many years ago," and more than one "full twenty years back." These all worshiped your image and the god's statues and cursed the name of Christ.

But they declared their guilt or error was simply this -- on a fixed day they used to meet before dawn and recite a hymn among themselves to Christ, as though he were a god. So far from binding themselves by oath to commit any crime, they swore to keep from theft, robbery, adultery, breach of faith, and not to deny any trust money deposited with them when called upon to deliver it. This ceremony over, they used to depart and meet again to take food -- but it was of no special character, and entirely harmless. They also had ceased from this practice after the edict I issued -- by which, in accord with your orders, I forbade all secret societies.

I then thought it the more needful to get at the facts behind their statements. Therefore I placed two women, called "deaconesses," under torture, but I found only a debased superstition carried to great lengths, so I postponed my examination, and immediately consulted you. This seems a matter worthy of your prompt consideration, especially as so many people are endangered. Many of all ages and both sexes are put in peril of their lives by their accusers; and the process will go on, for the contagion of this superstition has spread not merely through the free towns, but into the villages and farms. Still I think it can be halted and things set right. Beyond any doubt, the temples -- which were nigh deserted -- are beginning again to be thronged with worshipers; the sacred rites, which long have lapsed, are now being renewed, and the food for the sacrificial victims is again finding a sale -- though up to recently it had almost no market. So one can safely infer how vast numbers could be reclaimed, if only there were a chance given for repentance.

Trajan to Pliny

You have adopted the right course, my dear Pliny, in examining the cases of those cited before you as Christians; for no hard and fast rule can be laid down covering such a wide question. The Christians are not to be hunted out. If brought before you, and the offense is proved, they are to be punished, but with this reservation -- if any one denies he is a Christian, and makes it clear he is not, by offering prayer to our gods, then he is to be pardoned on his recantation, no matter how suspicious his past. As for anonymous pamphlets, they are to be discarded absolutely, whatever crime they may charge, for they are not only a precedent of a very bad type, but they do not accord with the spirit of our age.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancie...y-trajan1.html
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  #14  
Old Dec 5, '07, 10:38 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Concerning the Birth of Jesus, look at around 6 BC

http://www.ibri.org/

THE CENSUS OF QUIRINIUS The Historicity of Luke 2:1-5
Ronald Marchant

ABSTRACT

Critics have objected to every statement of fact in the census account of Luke 2:1-5. Here the critical view is analyzed with special attention to Quirinius' association with this census. A false correlation by critics between Luke's narrative and a later census described by Josephus seems to be the error involved. Although as yet no independent confirmation of Luke's census has turned up, similar events from the same period and locale substantiate every statement of his account.
http://www.ibri.org/DVD-1/RRs/RR004/04census.htm

Quote:
Oh i forgot to mention approves of slavery. According to the bible i can keep a slave from a neighboring country (New Zealand perhaps?)
Yes, the bible reflects the culture it was written in. But the slavery described in the Bible for Isreal is not the same as was practiced in America.

Lev 25

42
Since those whom I brought out of the land of Egypt are servants of mine, they shall not be sold as slaves to any man.
43
Do not lord it over them harshly, but stand in fear of your God.
44
"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among the neighboring nations.
45
You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chattels,
46
and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen.
47
"When one of your countrymen is reduced to such poverty that he sells himself to a wealthy alien who has a permanent or a temporary residence among you, or to one of the descendants of an immigrant family,
48
even after he has thus sold his services he still has the right of redemption; he may be redeemed by one of his own brothers,
49
or by his uncle or cousin, or by some other relative or fellow clansman; or, if he acquires the means, he may redeem himself.
50
With his purchaser he shall compute the years from the sale to the jubilee, distributing the sale price over these years as though he had been hired as a day laborer.
51
The more such years there are, the more of the sale price he shall pay back as ransom;
52
the fewer years there are left before the jubilee year, the more he has to his credit; in proportion to his years of service shall he pay his ransom.
53
The alien shall treat him as a servant hired on an annual basis, and he shall not lord it over him harshly under your very eyes.
54
If he is not thus redeemed, he shall nevertheless be released, together with his children, in the jubilee year.
55
For to me the Israelites belong as servants; they are servants of mine, because I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I, the LORD, your God.
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  #15  
Old Dec 5, '07, 10:41 am
Daniel Marsh Daniel Marsh is offline
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Default Re: Why I don't trust the bible, can any persuade me to?

Quote:
The book was compiled by Rome and some texts were kept,
No the books were "compiled" over time by all the churches, it was not until about 399 at an Ecumenical Council when the Cannon of Scripture was defined.


The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance by Bruce M. Metzger

The Canon of Scripture by F.F. Bruce

Quote:
others that they didn't want, like say a woman writing and keeping a record were stricken only to be found again today.
I have no idea what you refer to here, specifically. But, yes psudegrapha writings were exculded from scripture because they lacked apolostlic origins.

Quote:
The books were written by hand, then over time copies were written again and again, things could have changed mistakes could have been made. Perhaps they changed details on purpose. How would anyone really know?
So what? You should study the science of Textual Criticism.
Documents were copied in one city and sent to ten, then in those cities copies were sent to ten other cities each, where copies existed in a wide range of reigions. It was by comparing those manuscripts that miscopies, errors and deliberate changes were identified and removed from the text thus giving us a text that is over 99 percent correct.

Misquoting Truth: A Guide to the Fallacies of Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" (Paperback)
by Timothy Paul Jones

Colwell, Ernest C. Studies In Methodology in Textual Criticism of the
New Testament. New Testament Tools and Studies Series. Edited
by Bruce M. Metzger. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1969.

Finegan, Jack. Encountering New Testament Manuscripts: A Working In-
troduction to Textual Criticism. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974.


Greenlee, J. Harold. Introduction to New Testament Textual Criticism.
Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1964.

Metzger, Bruce M. A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament.
London: United Bible Societies, 1971.

________ The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption
and Restoration. Second ed. New York: Oxford University Press,
1968.

Quote:
Perhaps during the compilation any parts that were far to outlandish like jesus using his powers as a child to play pranks on people like turning them into a goat would have been left out. I honestly don't trust the Roman Empire at all...
There is a story in Psudegraphia writings of Jesus making a clay bird and breathing life into it. There is also a story of Jeus speaking as a baby in the crib. These are made up stories in Psude ( false ) graphia ( writings ), none of these stories or documents have apolstic origins.

Ah, the Roman Empire is NOT the Christian Church, nor is it the Roman Catholic Church, those are seperate enities.

Quote:
Then comes all the tradition. There are more saints and specific gaurdian angels than i can count. A saint for healing a saint for study a saint for this an angel for that. And people pray to specific saints for things instead of god, for me this is just like praying to Baset instead of praying to Isis. I mean who needs more gods and demi gods when you have saints.
As a protestant, I don't believe in praying to saints too. But, as a Catholic you can pray to God, and need not pray to saints if you don't want too.

Quote:
All the stolen dates and rituals from other religions predating Christianity.

Son of god born December 25th died was buried and on the third day rose again, Mithrias.

Imagery and ideal of Isis is what we invisage mary as, have you seen Isis holding baby hourus then compared it to mary holding baby jesus?

The Godess Oester, aka Easter, that is actually her holiday. She represents new life with an egg that was colored, hidden and found. She also turned a small bird into a rabbit to entratain little children, an easter rabbit.

Zoroastrians had the concept of a single god Mazda (zoom zoom), far before the single god Yhawey
This is all known as the Copycat Thesis, which us historians have dismissed decades ago. Most of the parallels are simply made up. They do not exist. Many of those that do exist are post Christian in origin. And, were a critic ties to make them exist, they are fudging the facts a lot by leaving out the rest of the story.

Confronting the Copycat Thesis
http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/copycathub.html

The Dictionary of Classical Mythology (Mass Market Paperback)
by John Edward Zimmerman

Quote:
The code of hamarabi predate the old testemant ten comandments.
Yes, it did exist before the ten suggestions, but have you even read the complet Code of Hamarabi? The claim that Moses copied from it is just plain silly !!!http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
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