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  #1  
Old Dec 13, '07, 6:02 pm
hamburglar hamburglar is offline
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Default Translating names into Latin

How can I translate a name into Latin, like a saint's name?

For example, John is Ioannes and James is Iacobe. These don't have much resemblence to the English names, but then you have names like Michael, which is Michael, and Thomas is Thoma.

I also don't understand the endings on names. I know Latin is different than English because you can change endings and such. But I have seen Benedict as Benedicte and Benedicti.
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  #2  
Old Dec 13, '07, 6:17 pm
drafdog drafdog is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

The differences in the spellings of any particular name in Latin are based on grammatical case. Unless you are willing to take a multi-year course in classical Latin so that you really become familiar with the language, don't even think about "translating" names into Latin. It's a foolish waste of time.

Matthew
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  #3  
Old Dec 13, '07, 7:11 pm
LarryRay LarryRay is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburglar View Post
How can I translate a name into Latin, like a saint's name?

For example, John is Ioannes and James is Iacobe. These don't have much resemblence to the English names, but then you have names like Michael, which is Michael, and Thomas is Thoma.

I also don't understand the endings on names. I know Latin is different than English because you can change endings and such. But I have seen Benedict as Benedicte and Benedicti.
Actually, Benedict is Benedictus in Latin. The -us ending is very common for masculine names while -a is a typical female ending. The alternate endings that you've seen depend upon how the word is used in the sentence or phrase. For example, Benedicti is the possessive case (i.e., "of Benedict"). When the Pope signs an official document in Latin, he uses the nominative case "Benedictus XVI." However, let's say that the Vatican released a statement about "the actions OF the Holy Father Benedict XVI." In that situation, the possessive case (Benedicti) is used.

James is actually Iacobus. While it's true that the names don't appear similar at first glance, the connection become a bit clearer when you consider other intermediate forms:

Iacobus
Jacobus (Late Latin)
Jacomus (or Giacomo in Italian)
James


As for translating English names into Latin, there's no simple formula that you can use. You have to look up the name in a comprehensive Latin dictionary (or a Church document or a dictionary of saints or similar source). Obviously, for some modern English names for which there has never been a saint (e.g., Lindsey or Tyler), you're not going to find a Latin equivalent.
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  #4  
Old Dec 13, '07, 7:41 pm
hamburglar hamburglar is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by drafdog View Post
The differences in the spellings of any particular name in Latin are based on grammatical case. Unless you are willing to take a multi-year course in classical Latin so that you really become familiar with the language, don't even think about "translating" names into Latin. It's a foolish waste of time.

Matthew
I basically want to be able to know how to say "(SAINT NAME) pray for us" in Latin.

Like my name is Brendan, after St. Brendan, the voyager. So I want to say "Sancte _____, ora pro nobis"

I was also trying to say "Saint John of the Cross, pray for us." Would this be "Sancte Ioannes de crux, ora pro nobis?"
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  #5  
Old Dec 13, '07, 8:14 pm
LarryRay LarryRay is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburglar View Post
Would this be "Sancte Ioannes de crux, ora pro nobis?"
No, "of the cross" is "a cruce." Thus, it's "Sancte Ioannes a Cruce, ora pro nobis."

A litany like "Saint..., pray for us" typically uses the "vocative" case (which is the same as the nominative, except nominative names that end in -us generally take -e as a vocative ending while names ending in "-ius" take an "i" (e.g., Vincentius become Vincenti in the vocative).

Check out this list of litanies:
http://www.medievalist.net/hourstxt/litanies.htm

As for St. Brendan, it appears that he has been translated as "Sanctus Brendanus," so you can use "Sancte Brendane" in your litany.
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  #6  
Old Dec 13, '07, 8:53 pm
hamburglar hamburglar is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryRay View Post
No, "of the cross" is "a cruce." Thus, it's "Sancte Ioannes a Cruce, ora pro nobis."

A litany like "Saint..., pray for us" typically uses the "vocative" case (which is the same as the nominative, except nominative names that end in -us generally take -e as a vocative ending while names ending in "-ius" take an "i" (e.g., Vincentius become Vincenti in the vocative).

Check out this list of litanies:
http://www.medievalist.net/hourstxt/litanies.htm

As for St. Brendan, it appears that he has been translated as "Sanctus Brendanus," so you can use "Sancte Brendane" in your litany.
Okay, thanks. My St. Benedict medal says "Crux S. Patris Benedicti" so I thought cross is "crux." I know that's what it means, so it must have something to do with vocative, nominative cases or whatever.

I do know how to say the litany of the saints in Latin, so I know all the saints in that.

Did you just figure that St. Brendan on your own? I know he's not in the litany of the saints, however much I want him to!
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  #7  
Old Dec 13, '07, 9:45 pm
LarryRay LarryRay is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburglar View Post
Okay, thanks. My St. Benedict medal says "Crux S. Patris Benedicti" so I thought cross is "crux." I know that's what it means, so it must have something to do with vocative, nominative cases or whatever.
Yeah, "crux" is "cross" in the nominative case while "cruce" is the ablative case. In this case, the ablative is preceded by the preposition "a" (meaning "of").

Quote:
Did you just figure that St. Brendan on your own? I know he's not in the litany of the saints, however much I want him to!
There's a Latin litany of Irish saints ("Litaniae Sanctorum Hiberniae") in this blog:
http://rubricsandritual.blogspot.com...f-ireland.html
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  #8  
Old Dec 13, '07, 10:06 pm
hamburglar hamburglar is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryRay View Post
Yeah, "crux" is "cross" in the nominative case while "cruce" is the ablative case. In this case, the ablative is preceded by the preposition "a" (meaning "of").


There's a Latin litany of Irish saints ("Litaniae Sanctorum Hiberniae") in this blog:
http://rubricsandritual.blogspot.com...f-ireland.html
Great, I can never remember how to pronounce Latin now. I can pronounce the letters and diphthongs properly, but I can never get the accents right. And how do I know whether the vowels are long or short?
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  #9  
Old Dec 15, '07, 7:39 am
Andreas Hofer Andreas Hofer is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryRay View Post
No, "of the cross" is "a cruce." Thus, it's "Sancte Ioannes a Cruce, ora pro nobis."

A litany like "Saint..., pray for us" typically uses the "vocative" case (which is the same as the nominative, except nominative names that end in -us generally take -e as a vocative ending while names ending in "-ius" take an "i" (e.g., Vincentius become Vincenti in the vocative).

Check out this list of litanies:
http://www.medievalist.net/hourstxt/litanies.htm

As for St. Brendan, it appears that he has been translated as "Sanctus Brendanus," so you can use "Sancte Brendane" in your litany.
There is an additional vocative that pops up in litanies regarding names ending in -as (like Thomas, Lucas). These names drop the "s" for the vocative, thus Sancte Thoma, ora pro nobis. They are also otherwise declined, I believe, as first declension nouns without that final "s", so Sanctus Thomas, Sancti Thomae, Sancto Thomae, Sanctum Thomam, Sancto Thoma. But I could be wrong about some of those cases.
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  #10  
Old Dec 15, '07, 8:44 am
jedi jedi is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryRay View Post
Actually, Benedict is Benedictus in Latin. The -us ending is very common for masculine names while -a is a typical female ending. The alternate endings that you've seen depend upon how the word is used in the sentence or phrase. For example, Benedicti is the possessive case (i.e., "of Benedict"). When the Pope signs an official document in Latin, he uses the nominative case "Benedictus XVI." However, let's say that the Vatican released a statement about "the actions OF the Holy Father Benedict XVI." In that situation, the possessive case (Benedicti) is used.

James is actually Iacobus. While it's true that the names don't appear similar at first glance, the connection become a bit clearer when you consider other intermediate forms:


.
Benedict in LATIN TERM....
~ Benedictus
~ Benedicti
then how about BENEDETTO????
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  #11  
Old Dec 15, '07, 11:40 am
Andreas Hofer Andreas Hofer is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi View Post
Benedict in LATIN TERM....
~ Benedictus
~ Benedicti
then how about BENEDETTO????
Benedetto is Italian.
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  #12  
Old Dec 15, '07, 2:24 pm
drafdog drafdog is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Do you see now why I said you should take a course in classical Latin?
A better course would be to just drop it and pray the litany of the saints as found in many Catholic prayer books. You are allowed to add at the end of the litany any saint's name which is not listed. Note that they are grouped in the litany to cover patriarchs, apostles, martyrs, founders of religious communities, etc.

Matthew
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  #13  
Old Dec 16, '07, 8:57 am
NoPlaceLikeRome NoPlaceLikeRome is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

Matthew, you are a bit cynical, one could if gifted with memory learn all the declensions of Latin without a course. There are only 5 declensions x 5 cases x 2 numbers (sing. +pl.) and the more useful ones could be focused on. Besides, for names one wouldn't need to learn the plural.

1st decl.--most women's names--those ending in --y in Eng. or --a
(BTW, I think Thomas is declined like this--Thomas, Thomae, Thomae, Thomam, Thoma.)

Maria
Mariae (of Mary)
Mariae (to or for Mary)
Mariam (Mary--as a direct object--like 'Amo Mariam', I love Mary)
Maria (by Mary, with Mary)
O Maria! (O Mary!)

Also 'Sancta,' Saint if it is a woman, is the same, Sancta, Sanctae, Sanctae, Sanctam, Sancta, O Sancta.

2nd Decl.--many men's names especially non-Hebrew ones: Roman or Romanized names--Petrus, Paulus, Iacobus, Matthaeus...
Most names ending in US will be here--but some aren't--ex. Jesus is declined as 5th decl. I think.

Paulus
Pauli (of Paul)
Paulo (to or for Paul)
Paulum (Paul as a direct object)
Paulo (by Paul, with Paul)
O Paule! (O Paul)

Also you use this 2nd decl. for the Masculine form of Saint: Sanctus, Sancti, Sancto, Sanctum, Sancto, O Sancte!

3rd Decl.--I think a lot of Hebrew names come in here--Michael Michaelis Michaeli... etc., and so on.

Ioannes
Ioannis
Ioanni
Ioannem
Ioanne
O Ioanne!
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  #14  
Old Dec 16, '07, 9:57 pm
hamburglar hamburglar is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

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Originally Posted by drafdog View Post
Do you see now why I said you should take a course in classical Latin?
If I were to take a course in Latin, would it be a given for ti to be classical? Also, I know the Latin we use in the Church is different than the classical Latin.
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  #15  
Old Dec 16, '07, 10:08 pm
JDHallKY JDHallKY is offline
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Default Re: Translating names into Latin

I have found this thread to be fascinating. I love Latin, and wish I knew a lot more of it.

However, am I the only one that finds it a little funny that the Church has to have an official Latin name for everything? Like Archidioecesis Galvestoniensis Houstoniensis for the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston.

Quick! Which diocese is this? Dioecesis Petropolitana in Insula Longa

Actually, all of that is pretty cool...
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Last edited by JDHallKY; Dec 16, '07 at 10:10 pm. Reason: repeated word
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