Best friends are anti-religious, don't know what to do..

[marco180]

Hello,
I have recently started university and made some great friends. Unfortunately they are not religious, with one claiming undecided, and the other an avid follower of Dawkins. (this only started recently, in an effort to go AGAINST me)

Granted you may think, why be friends with a pair like this, but they're in all my classes and we get along great, and I'm not going to ignore them because they don't have the same religion as me. I also hope to help them see Christ one day, but am in no means preaching to them. I am always available for discussion and they know it, and enjoy talking about serious matters and hearing opinions and ideas of others.

Yet it seems, that they don't listen to a word I say, because they know I was brought up catholic and so they say I'm brainwashed and blinded to the truth.

Fact of the matter is, though I was raised a Catholic, I was not really convinced for a long time. Till I had the chance to study at a higher level, and really learn about the logic behind the beliefs did it make sense to me, and did I accept it fully. There is not one value or belief that I have that I cannot justify with a full explanation, and most without need for religious involvement too!

Yet whenever I try to discuss anything with them of serious nature, they shut me down and say I'm brainwashed and can't see the truth.

In fact, today in the library we were in a study room.. and the topic of homosexual marriage came up.
I presented the concepts of legal marriage and religious marriage being two very different things, and that homosexuals are vying for legal marriage rights. Also that they should be allowed legal marriage rights, but that the Church will not change the ceremonial definition of marriage because there are two sacred parts, 1. love/unity and 2. procreation (of which the second is impossible in same-sex relationships. aside from the obvious bodily abuse and sin caused by same-sex sexual relationships)

But they denied me! Said I was a fool! Said that I was brainwashed and generalizing about things I don't know anything about! It hurt me so bad to see that they were only arguing AGAINST me, not because they believed the opposite, but they just always argue AGAINST me. Because i have spent YEARS studying the subjects. And I said to them "I have spent years studying, and these are the things I've come up with, when you do some research then we can discuss this, don't just make up stuff and argue against me!" - And their responses were "no, you haven't spent years studying, you're just making up ****".


I left very upset, as my feelings were really hurt. I was trying to have a serious conversation, and explain my views, and openly listen to their views, but they only wanted to shut me up and insult me.

It hurts me alot to have my best friends, of all people, treat me so intolerantly and so disrespectfully. I don't know what to do, and it just really hurts.

Sorry that this is so longwinded, but I just don't know what to do!
Normally we are great friends, but right now I feel so alone and hurt.

At university it's hard to find Catholics, and I have joined the Catholic chaplaincy here, but quite frankly, the people I met there seemed so BLAND and BORING! Perhaps its because, aside from God, we don't share much interests in common.. but it seems like I'm the only Catholic in the whole School of Computing!

Ahhh, I just don't know what to do. It's 2am and I'm in the library studying for a math exam, and my friends doing this to me just, feels so much worse than it probably is.
Ugh.

[Just wondering]

Hi there,
I don't know how useful my reply is going to be, but I'm a lecturer at a university and I've seen people in your shoes before.

have recently started university and made some great friends. Unfortunately they are not religious, with one claiming undecided, and the other an avid follower of Dawkins. (this only started recently, in an effort to go AGAINST me)

They sound like typical university freshmen. They are still going through the stage when any kind of authority must be wrong. They haven't been in your shoes, so they can't believe that you've done this soul-searching before and that you found your answers on your own. If you agree with the authorities, it must be because you've been brainwashed! To acknowledge otherwise is to admit that the authorities can be right sometimes, and that goes against the anti-establisment nature of most young university students.

it seems like I'm the only Catholic in the whole School of Computing!

Bingo I kind of suspected your friends are either engineers or computer science majors. (correct me if I'm wrong)They're the kind of people who try to take things apart to understand them better. There's no use in telling them the truth, they want to find it on their own. My brother and father are computer science majors, and they're like that. Don't give them solutions, give them problems to solve!

As for advice, I'd say you have to learn to stop yourself when you're becoming emotionally invested in the argument. When they start to accuse you of being brainwashed, that's a good time to say, "fine, then, figure it out for yourself."

My brother used to delight in backing me into a corner and attacking me (in a linguistic and logical way, not physically). My parents taught me that the best solution was not to rise to his bait. Once the conversation took a bad turn, I had to learn to end it.

An alternative method would be to limit yourself to asking questions in debates like these. Your questions can be pointed. Play the "questions only game" - answer every question about the Church with another question about their corresponding beliefs. After all, you've already completed your search for the truth.

Basically, remember that your friends probably think this is a hilarious game. Once you stop reacting, they'll either turn to someone else for their jollies, or they'll settle down and have a rational conversation with you. At that point, either way, it should be easier for you to spend time with them without getting mad.

[po18guy]

Marco180, you have a strong faith life. Bear with them and suppress your feelings, since Christ was constantly abused by the religious leaders of the day. And He is God the Son! Go to prayer for them, because you know not what the Lord's plan is for them. As to their constant arguing with you, those who feel empty often put up a strong facade, but have nothing behind it. You have the moral "filling" that their souls need. Just be firm in your faith, and take all abuse as a blessing, as Christ said: Matthew 5:10-12 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you".

So, the Lord has placed you with them, and has put them in your life for a definite reason. How will they hear the truth if not from you? Be patient with them to a fault. One of them may convert in their 60s or 70s, because of your loving example. Nothing you can say to them will convince them - only the Holy Spirit can open their eyes. You have explained your beliefs well, and given good reasoning. That is enough. Allow the Lord to do the rest.
Prayer works. Use it often.

Christ's peace be always with you.

[revelations]

Hi Marco, I'm in my last year of Mechanical Engineering so we know the same kinds of people. I'll regal you with my long winded story, because i just finished all my exams! (also i'll give you advice as to how i handle situations like that)

University is a special place, to say the least. It's like the brooding ground of immorality: drunkenness, drugs, abuse, intolerance, sexual immorality (like 1 guy and 5 different girls in one night..not uncommon), dishonesty, etc etc you list it and it happens here. At least one of my [secular] friends partakes in one or more of those above mentioned activities once a week. So, it's not exactly the environment conducive to talking about religious values, lol. Also, as mentioned above, engineers love breaking things down and evaluating them. Everything must be logical.

So then it comes to religion. No one in our faculty ever talks about it. Religion isn't "logical". It's a bunch of superstitions that old people do. It can't be broken down into fundamental laws of physics . For the first 2 years of my career, i was pretty a-religious. Whenever God came up, it was usually as a joke.

Then I met my GF. She started bringing me back to church, and showing me things slowly. Eventually because of her, I found Jesus, God bless her, and now I'm on the road to becoming Catholic. I can agree with you 100% that the teachings make logical sense. I'm an engineer and to me everything is more clear than it has ever been. There's nothing like sitting in a class room and hearing the teacher say "after 70 years of study we still don't know how this works or how it came about" and in my head i'm saying "well i know..." Also, now that i am walking with Jesus, my marks are better! Anyways, to get back on topic...

At university you are surrounded by atheists. Not people that reject their religion, but people that have never even been baptized. My feelings are often deeply hurt by the things people say about Jesus, and the mockery that i hear. Even from close people i work with. Now they know that i go to church weekly, and sometimes i leave a rosary out, so they've toned down around me. Maybe one day they'll ask me some questions.

A lot of young people are very wounded. Emotionally and spiritually that is. Wounded by divorce, bad upbringing, too many sexual partners, alcoholism, drug addiction, gender issues, you name it. You are surrounded by people that do not even know the 10 commandments. Forget talking about abortion realistically, homosexual unions, premarital sex, because you are talking with people who have abortions, homosexual tendencies, and premarital sex! (or at least closely know someone). People hate feeling judged, even if it is not your intention. Let me give you some tid bits of conversations i've had:

On abortion: When asked i say it's murder period. Replies are along the lines of: "is this because you're becoming catholic?", "are you serious, you think that little egg is a baby?", "ok i agree that 10 weeks into the pregnancy it's a baby but 5 weeks, you can abort that...it's not a baby yet..", to the more militant "The pope doesnt belong in my vagina" and on and on. I don't argue, i don't give reasons for what i believe, i just say it, BOOM! MURDER!

On gay marriage in the church: I say it will never happen because the union between a man and a woman is unnatural, but they are welcome to legal marriage. Replies: "yah, but if God made them that way..why can't they get married before God?", "but they have to be happy too", "you're racist" (lol), to which i say that God intends union as a means to rear children, to which i hear "but they can adopt" and finally, "is this because you're becoming catholic?"

I thank the lord every day that i have never met up with a MILITANT atheist like you have. Richard Dawkins is truly a hateful man (read the movie titles: The virus of faith, and Mother Theresa: Hell's Angel, and other stuff like that) and I am sorry that your friend has poisoned his mind. The best way to deal with him is to let him finish his diatribe and thank him for his opinion. Remind him that you are not pushing your beliefs on him (I hope not ) Smile and nod, and then move on. Pray for him a lot.

Don't debate, don't give the background of your reasoning, don't use any dogma to back up anything you say, don't try to convert him, just say a little prayer in your head, something like "blood of Christ wash over me and send the Holy Spirit to hold and guide my tongue..." something like that. I think they are just scared you are going to become a "Jesus Freak" as i've been called, lol. Just plant the seeds peacefully, and let God do the rest.

I hope i didn't ramble to much and i hope it helps, if you'd like to chat more PM me and we can arrange something .I guarantee you'll feel better after...

-revelations

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Are they "anti-religious" or "anti-spiritual"? It is one thing to have disagreements with religious organizations' policies, it is another to be devoid of any spirituality whatsoever. Try approaching them on a general spiritual level and try to find common ground there.

It may help open up a discussion between the two parts to find things you can agree upon and have a calm, sane, logical discussion between things you disagree upon. It may come down to a "agree to disagree" matter where you can still be friends but respect the differences in opinion.

[revelations]

If they are devouring Richard Dawkins...well, they're not just anti-spiritual, they militant and have a deep discontent for anyone who could even think about God.


But yes, agree to disagree is the best policy.

[MarieVeronica]

Dear Marco.. Oh, I feel for you! And I understand the "hurt" you're experiencing. One of my own beloved sisters.. my flesh and blood.. is against our precious faith. The faith that she was baptized into, as an infant. She is extremely against the Catholic Church (showing particular dislike of the hierachy.. priests, bishops.. etc.), and has been so.. for over 30 years. She has been interested in the writings of a woman who teaches that Our Blessed Mother.. is actually a "god" (called Mother God). I'm so worried about my sister. That she is buying into this heresy.

All I can say is.. have courage! Some of the good people in this forum (the Spirituality forum) reminded me.. just today.. of how St. Monica prayed for years and years.. for the conversion of her son, St. Augustine. Your friends are so blessed, that you are in their lives.. because you are setting a good example for them. Keep praying for them, ok? Even if you don't see their conversions in your life time.. your prayers matter so much! Our Lord hears your prayers.. and He loves those who have strayed.. just as He loves all of us! If their absence hurts us.. who are imperfect.. how MUCH it must hurt Him!

Remember, He is the Good Shepard, who seeks out the lost sheep. God bless.

[blacktiger057]

I have what I call Class A friends and Class B friends. Class A is where I know that I can talk politics/religion/personal things with them. Class B friends are still my friends, but I know I can't talk religion around them, so I simply don't.

Just because someone is a Class A friend doesn't nescerily mean you like them better than other friends, though, so keep that in mind. People just have different opinions over things, and you must respect that if you want to remain friends. If they are anti-religious, don't talk about religion around them. Refrain from proselytizing. This will make both your lives easier and is better for a healthy relationship.

[marty30]

I wouldn't suppress my feelings for that will only cause you trouble later on but I would offer them to God. I had a simular experience and am having one now. I have found that praying to God for like minded people works. I t works for me. I don't spend to much time talking to people who are anti-religous."pearls before swines." My prayer today is to be with and around people who are holy and pure or atleast strive for that. As St. francis said some thing to the effect of go preach the word of God and when nessecary use words. You are wasting your time with people who persecute you. I don't think Jesus said blessed are you who hang out with people who persecute you. Pray to God to for likeminded people and seek spiritual guidance from a priest and or religous. Don't waste time with scoffers.

[blacktiger057]

You are wasting your time with people who persecute you. I don't think Jesus said blessed are you who hang out with people who persecute you.

Well, some people just have different opinions. In many ways, you are the persecutor if you keep trying to impose your beliefs on them. So be wary of that.

[marty30]

Originally Posted by blacktiger057

Well, some people just have different opinions. In many ways, you are the persecutor if you keep trying to impose your beliefs on them. So be wary of that.

So are you saying that our Catholic Faith is just a matter of opinion?

[hasikelee]

1) if you plan to continue a relationship w/ these people and plan to continue talking about hot button issues, always have a witness or partner with you and always be in a public place.

2) how are you getting into these subjects? Is someone bringing them up to fool you and watch you hang yourself? Either someone is playing around with you for their own agenda/amusement or they are genuinely interested. Obviously only one option is worth arguing about.

3) instead of sharing, talking, stating, explaining, etc, you need to make THEM explain their side of the story. Asking pointed questions forces people to work through it all by their big self.

For example, a coworker stated to me that she uses Yasmine because it is the most effective.

"Why is it the most effective?"
"Because it prevents implantation, it's really awesome!"
"Implantation of what?"
"Oh, you know!"
"No, I don't know. What does is prevent?"
"Implantation of the thing."
"What is the thing?"
"It's this cell stuff"

Etc etc. You have to make them do the work. 9 times out of 10 they already know the truth.

[blacktiger057]

So are you saying that our Catholic Faith is just a matter of opinion?

Yes, because it's a faith, not a fact.

[fin]

First, I don't agree to the OP and to another poster that homosexuals should be granted legal marriage rights.

As for your problem, I'm in the same predicament. I keep on saying this here. I haven't met people who are religious or interested in the Faith.

If they are anti-religious, do you think you should hang out with them? I find this a difficult question to answer. But my answer is, I would prefer not to be with them. As for you, it is up to you to decide. We all want friends, it's natural.to crave for companionship. You've said that you find the people in your campus ministry bland and boring. Try to be friends with them. Maybe they are faithful and orthodox Catholics who will try to uplift you and help you grow in your spiritual life. I think it's better to be around people who would help you to be good than those who won't. As I've said, this is one of my biggest problems. Can't find these people. Feel free to private message me. I'm also at school, so I understand how you feel.

[mommyof4]

I would recommend getting the book Search and Rescue: How to Bring Your Family and Friends Into, or Back Into, the Catholic Church by Patrick Madrid. This is an excellent book about evangelizing your friends, family, etc. They have some used books for only $4-5.

Good luck and God Bless!