Catholic FAQ


Latest Threads
newest posts



Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions
 

Welcome to Catholic Answers Forums, the largest Catholic Community on the Web.

Here you can join over 400,000 members from around the world discussing all things Catholic. Membership is open to all, Catholic and non-Catholic alike, who seek the Truth with Charity.

To gain full access, you must register for a FREE account. Registered members are able to:
  • Submit questions about the faith to experts from Catholic Answers
  • Participate in all forum discussions
  • Communicate privately with Catholics from around the world
  • Plus join a prayer group, read with the Book Club, and much more.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. So join our community today!

Have a question about registration or your account log-in? Just contact our Support Hotline.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search Thread Display
  #1  
Old Dec 21, '07, 8:25 am
Mannyfit75's Avatar
Mannyfit75 Mannyfit75 is offline
Veteran Member
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
Radio Club Member
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2006
Posts: 10,471
Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)
Send a message via AIM to Mannyfit75 Send a message via MSN to Mannyfit75 Send a message via Yahoo to Mannyfit75
Default Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

I have a question for atheists, Pagans, Muslim, Jews, and other Non-believers. Have you ever baptized a person who desire to become a Christian? Even though, you don't profess a Christian faith?
__________________
Call me Emmanuel, or Manny.

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,.." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D." - Manny
  #2  
Old Dec 21, '07, 10:40 am
KarenNC KarenNC is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2006
Posts: 2,518
Religion: Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist (polytheist)
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
I have a question for atheists, Pagans, Muslim, Jews, and other Non-believers. Have you ever baptized a person who desire to become a Christian? Even though, you don't profess a Christian faith?
Why in the world would anyone ask someone who was not a Christian to baptize them as a Christian?
__________________
“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
  #3  
Old Dec 21, '07, 10:45 am
AgnosTheist AgnosTheist is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: August 23, 2007
Posts: 3,853
Religion: n/a
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

huh?
  #4  
Old Dec 21, '07, 11:15 am
Mannyfit75's Avatar
Mannyfit75 Mannyfit75 is offline
Veteran Member
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
Radio Club Member
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2006
Posts: 10,471
Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)
Send a message via AIM to Mannyfit75 Send a message via MSN to Mannyfit75 Send a message via Yahoo to Mannyfit75
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenNC View Post
Why in the world would anyone ask someone who was not a Christian to baptize them as a Christian?
In certain situations, baptism maybe become necessary. I was listening to Fr. Corapi's teaching on Jesus Christ on Baptism. For example, suppose a Christian man who has an atheist wife and this Christian man is dying. He has a new born son, and he desires his son to be baptized.
__________________
Call me Emmanuel, or Manny.

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,.." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D." - Manny
  #5  
Old Dec 21, '07, 11:29 am
KarenNC KarenNC is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2006
Posts: 2,518
Religion: Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist (polytheist)
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
In certain situations, baptism maybe become necessary. I was listening to Fr. Corapi's teaching on Jesus Christ on Baptism. For example, suppose a Christian man who has an atheist wife and this Christian man is dying. He has a new born son, and he desires his son to be baptized.
This is actually a rather different question than you asked initially. The newborn son cannot ask on his own behalf to be baptized.

Why would the Christian man not baptize his son himself or ask someone else in the situation who was Christian (nurse, doctor, janitor, hospital chaplain, etc) to do so in his stead (presuming his wife agrees to it, as it is also her son, who she will be raising)? If the wife is in agreement, I would imagine she would seek out an appropriate person to administer the baptism. Surely even a lay Christian is preferable as an agent of baptism than a non-Christian? Are they presumed to be on a desert island where there are no other Christians about?

Do you believe that a non-Christian can administer a valid Christian baptism? I would think that a Catholic would see that a baptism of desire was more legitimate than a baptism administered by a non-Christian (but I may be wrong on that one).
__________________
“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
  #6  
Old Dec 21, '07, 1:43 pm
Tsuzuki Tsuzuki is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2006
Posts: 896
Religion: Agnostic Mormon rite Catholic occultist and Thelemite
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
I have a question for atheists, Pagans, Muslim, Jews, and other Non-believers. Have you ever baptized a person who desire to become a Christian? Even though, you don't profess a Christian faith?
Do Mormons count?
__________________
Catholic
Tiber Swim Team 2008

-------------------------
lucifer in tenebris lucet
-------------------------
  #7  
Old Dec 21, '07, 2:18 pm
Mannyfit75's Avatar
Mannyfit75 Mannyfit75 is offline
Veteran Member
Greeter
Prayer Warrior
Radio Club Member
Forum Supporter
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: April 4, 2006
Posts: 10,471
Religion: Catholic (Latin Rite)
Send a message via AIM to Mannyfit75 Send a message via MSN to Mannyfit75 Send a message via Yahoo to Mannyfit75
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuzuki View Post
Do Mormons count?

yes
__________________
Call me Emmanuel, or Manny.

"They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ,.." - St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D." - Manny
  #8  
Old Dec 21, '07, 2:41 pm
Tsuzuki Tsuzuki is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2006
Posts: 896
Religion: Agnostic Mormon rite Catholic occultist and Thelemite
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyfit75 View Post
yes
In that case, it happens all the time.
__________________
Catholic
Tiber Swim Team 2008

-------------------------
lucifer in tenebris lucet
-------------------------
  #9  
Old Dec 22, '07, 8:08 am
oneGODoneCHURCH's Avatar
oneGODoneCHURCH oneGODoneCHURCH is offline
Regular Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2007
Posts: 2,567
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

It is my understanding the to be valid the Baptism must be preformed by a priest unless due to pending death that is not possible.
  #10  
Old Dec 22, '07, 12:52 pm
ralphinal ralphinal is offline
Veteran Member
Prayer Warrior
Forum Supporter
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Posts: 9,391
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneGODoneCHURCH View Post
It is my understanding the to be valid the Baptism must be preformed by a priest unless due to pending death that is not possible.
Not exactly. A Baptism is valid if it is Trinitarian in nature and uses water. Trinitarian means that they are baptised "In the Name of the Father, and of The Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Anyone at all can baptise, even a non-Christian. The water does not have to be holy, but it must be able to flow over the head.

now, some of you ask why a non-Christian would do this? It is not that difficult. The example is given of someone who is atheist presented in a situation where they know that the parents of a child want the child baptised but they are not able to do it while the child is in imminant danger of death. At one time, this would happen in delivery rooms if the baby was close to death. One of the nurses, who may or may not be Christian, would baptise the baby.
  #11  
Old Dec 22, '07, 1:14 pm
oneGODoneCHURCH's Avatar
oneGODoneCHURCH oneGODoneCHURCH is offline
Regular Member
Book Club Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2007
Posts: 2,567
Religion: Roman Catholic
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphinal View Post
Not exactly. A Baptism is valid if it is Trinitarian in nature and uses water. Trinitarian means that they are baptised "In the Name of the Father, and of The Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Anyone at all can baptise, even a non-Christian. The water does not have to be holy, but it must be able to flow over the head.

now, some of you ask why a non-Christian would do this? It is not that difficult. The example is given of someone who is atheist presented in a situation where they know that the parents of a child want the child baptised but they are not able to do it while the child is in imminant danger of death. At one time, this would happen in delivery rooms if the baby was close to death. One of the nurses, who may or may not be Christian, would baptise the baby.

Take from New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia :

The ordinary minister of solemn baptism is first the bishop and second the priest. By delegation, a deacon may confer the sacrament solemnly as an extraordinary minister.
n case of necessity, baptism can be administered lawfully and validly by any person whatsoever who observes the essential conditions, whether this person be a Catholic layman or any other man or woman, heretic or schismatic, infidel or Jew.

The essential conditions are that the person pour water upon the one to be baptized, at the same time pronouncing the words: "I baptize thee in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." Moreover, he must thereby intend really to baptize the person, or technically, he must intend to perform what the Church performs when administering this sacrament.

The Roman Ritual adds that, even in conferring baptism in cases of necessity, there is an order of preference to be followed as to the minister. This order is: if a priest be present, he is to be preferred to a deacon, a deacon to a subdeacon, a cleric to a layman, and a man to a woman, unless modesty should require (as in cases of childbirth) that no other than the female be the minister, or again, unless the female should understand better the method of baptizing. The Ritual also says that the father or mother should not baptize their own child, except in danger of death when no one else is at hand who could administer the sacrament. Pastors are also directed by the Ritual to teach the faithful, and especially midwives, the proper method of baptizing. When such private baptism is administered, the other ceremonies of the rite are supplied later by a priest, if the recipient of the sacrament survives.

Peace in the Lord

Scott
  #12  
Old Dec 22, '07, 1:53 pm
Tsuzuki Tsuzuki is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2006
Posts: 896
Religion: Agnostic Mormon rite Catholic occultist and Thelemite
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ralphinal View Post
Not exactly. A Baptism is valid if it is Trinitarian in nature and uses water. Trinitarian means that they are baptised "In the Name of the Father, and of The Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Anyone at all can baptise, even a non-Christian. The water does not have to be holy, but it must be able to flow over the head.
If this were true, then Mormon baptisms would be valid (and my RCIA experience would be completely different). But they're not, so I get to be baptized a second time.
__________________
Catholic
Tiber Swim Team 2008

-------------------------
lucifer in tenebris lucet
-------------------------
  #13  
Old Dec 22, '07, 3:31 pm
KarenNC KarenNC is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2006
Posts: 2,518
Religion: Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist (polytheist)
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneGODoneCHURCH View Post
The Ritual also says that the father or mother should not baptize their own child, except in danger of death when no one else is at hand who could administer the sacrament.
Fascinating. I haven't encountered this before. Does anyone know the reasoning behind this? It seems an incredibly odd restriction. After all, who, presumably, would have the most sincere desire and intent for the child to be legitimately baptized into the faith of its parents other than its parents? Why would a random (perhaps non-Christian) bum on the street be preferable or give a more valid baptism?
__________________
“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
  #14  
Old Dec 22, '07, 3:33 pm
KarenNC KarenNC is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2006
Posts: 2,518
Religion: Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist (polytheist)
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuzuki View Post
In that case, it happens all the time.
Are you speaking of the posthumous baptisms? I understand that is the driving force behind the push for genealogical research in the Mormon Church.
__________________
“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
  #15  
Old Dec 22, '07, 3:36 pm
KarenNC KarenNC is offline
Regular Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2006
Posts: 2,518
Religion: Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist (polytheist)
Default Re: Atheists and other Non-Christians, have you baptized your Christian friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuzuki View Post
If this were true, then Mormon baptisms would be valid (and my RCIA experience would be completely different). But they're not, so I get to be baptized a second time.
Yes, I believe most Christian churches baptize in the name of the Trinity, so on that basis it seems odd that the Roman Catholic Church wouldn't accept the baptism performed by Protestants, if the person doesn't need to be what they consider sacramentally valid clergy. I gather from this post that they do not (having never sought baptism myself in the Catholic Church).
__________________
“But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Closed Thread

Go Back   Catholic Answers Forums > Forums > Non-Catholic Religions

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search Thread
Search Thread:

Advanced Search
Display

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Prayer Intentions

Most Active Groups
8258Meet and talk,talk talk
Last by: 1122Catie
5022CAF Prayer Warriors Support Group
Last by: Vim71
4346Devotion to the Sorrowful Mother
Last by: FootStool
4029OCD/Scrupulosity Group
Last by: B79
3835SOLITUDE
Last by: beth40n2
3572Let's empty Purgatory
Last by: RJB
3230Poems and Reflections
Last by: tonyg
3207Catholic Vegetarians & Vegans
Last by: Chast Forever
3139Petitions Before the Blessed Sacrament
Last by: Amiciel
3049For seniors and shut- ins
Last by: Thomas Choe



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 8:59 am.

Home RSS Feeds - Home - Archive - Top

Copyright © 2004-2014, Catholic Answers.