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  #46  
Old Dec 25, '07, 7:28 am
DLC DLC is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Here is something to think about.
Adam was not born but created: Christ was born without a father. The creation of Adam was in this respect similar to the creation of the world, and the lower animals; whereas the Qur’an itself says that Christ’s supernatural birth took place through God’s purpose to give men a sign, and this is not to said of any other prophet’s birth. To Abraham and Zecharias there was promised, according to the Qur’an a “wise son,” “a righteous prophet.” But regarding Christ’s birth the language used is very different, for Mary it is said, “Her who kept her maidenhood, and into whom We breathed Our spirit, and made her and her son a sign as without parallel. The same language is used neither of Mohammed nor of anyone else. Why is this, except because Christ is superior to all other prophets?

Why did God chose to interrupt the natural course of event in this way?
  #47  
Old Dec 25, '07, 7:54 am
hamba2han hamba2han is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

This is a reminder to all non-Muslims.

Once you accept the truth of the Qur'an, then this means that it becomes illogical for you to any longer deny that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of God.

The Truth, after all, can only come from the Creator.
  #48  
Old Dec 25, '07, 8:02 am
revelations revelations is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

hamba, could you enlighten us as to the truth of the qu'ran? in a nutshell? I personally believe to know the truth revealed to us by the God of Abraham, but if you can convince me beyond reasonable doubt otherwise, I would be glad to entertain your philosphies.

Again, what are these truths?
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  #49  
Old Dec 25, '07, 8:15 am
hamba2han hamba2han is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by revelations View Post
hamba, could you enlighten us as to the truth of the qu'ran? in a nutshell? I personally believe to know the truth revealed to us by the God of Abraham, but if you can convince me beyond reasonable doubt otherwise, I would be glad to entertain your philosphies.

Again, what are these truths?
There is an objective way to test and ascertain the truth of the Qur'an.

However, you need to read all of the relevant posts in the entire thread in order for you to determine for yourself whether or not the Qur'an is truly what it claims to be i.e. the literal Speech of God.
  #50  
Old Dec 25, '07, 9:54 am
De Maria De Maria is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamba2han View Post
There is an objective way to test and ascertain the truth of the Qur'an....
Your link points to this closed thread:

Quote:
Is there any falsification test in your religion? Is there anything in your religion that would prove you are wrong if I could prove to you that it exists - anything?...
"Do they not consider the Qur'an? Had it been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy."... (Surah An-Nisa, 4:82)

This is a clear challenge to the non-Muslim for it basically invites him to find a mistake in the Qur'an....
Oh my, there are so many discrepancies in the Quran it would be impossible to list them all in one simple message.

The Quran teaches that the world is flat: Turning to the Quran, we find that certain verses give the impression that the earth is anything but spherical:

"And the earth - We have spread out. (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable..." S. 15:19 Y. Ali "O you servants of Mine who have attained to faith! Behold! wide is Mine earth..." S. 50:7

"Have we not made the earth as a bed and the mountains as pegs." S. 78:6-7 (Al-Hillali-Khan)
"... And the earth how it is spread." S. 88:20:
At first these verses would simply seem to be allegorical statements, not to be taken literally. Yet, upon reading the works of the earliest Muslim commentators, it becomes quite evident that Muhammad believed in a flat earth! Al-Jalalan, one of Islam's premiere commentators, in his Tafsir, p. 509, states:

"In his phrase, `how it is spread', he denotes that the earth is flat. All the scholars ofIslamic law agree upon this. It is not round as physicists claim." (Cited in Behind the Veil, p. 175) Al Baidawi concurs:

"'Stretched out the earth' means it was flattened in width and length so that feet may be steady on it and animals may roll on it." (`Abdallah `Abd al-Fadi, Is the Quran Infallible?[Light of Life PO BOX 13, A-9503 VILLACH AUSTRIA], p.19) In the book, Behind The Veil: Unmasking Islam, we are told:

"These are the comments of the ancient Muslim scholars (i.e., Baidawi, Zamakhshari, Jalalan etc.) word for word. Even some Saudi scholars wrote a book a few years ago to disprove the spherical aspect of the earth and they claimed that it was a myth, agreeing with the above mentioned scholars, and said we must believe the Quran and reject the spherical aspect of the earth." (Ibid., p.176) As the preceding citation stated, there have been several modern Saudian Muslim authorities frankly admitting that the Quran does indeed teach a flat earth. The following article is taken from Athar Shiraz Siddiqui's article The Earth According to Quran:
The Earth According to Quran
Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality by Parvez Hoodbhoy: **** (Page 49)

".. The Sheikh (Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz) authored ... a book in Arabic entitled Jiryan Al-Shams Wa Al-Qammar Wa-Sukoon Al-Arz. This translates into Motion of the Sun and Moon, and Stationarity of the Earth... In an earlier book, he had threatened dissenters with the dire fatwa or takfir (disbelief), but did not repeat the threat in the newer version." "The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." Yousef M. Ibrahim, "Muslim Edicts take on New Force", The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.

That is a well-known religious edict, or fatwa, issued two years ago by Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia. The blind theologian's status gives his fatwas great weight, though his opinions have often raised eyebrows or embarrassed worldly Saudis...

Also cited by Sagan "The Demon-haunted World'', Carl Sagan, Ballantine, ISBN 0-345-40946-9, p. 325. I quote (as fair use):

``In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, issued a edict, or fatwah, declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished.'' Hence, we see that Muslims both of the past and present affirm that the Quran clearly teaches that the earth is flat.

I think just one instance of an erroneous teaching in the Quran
should suffice to prove it is not the Word of God. But I know InJesus can supply much more information if called upon.

Sincerely,

De Maria
  #51  
Old Dec 25, '07, 9:59 am
De Maria De Maria is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamba2han View Post
There is an objective way to test and ascertain the truth of the Qur'an.

However, you need to read all of the relevant posts in the entire thread in order for you to determine for yourself whether or not the Qur'an is truly what it claims to be i.e. the literal Speech of God.
Here's another great link which shows that the Quran is NOT the Word of God:
http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/debate/part2.htm

Sincerely,

De Maria
  #52  
Old Dec 25, '07, 10:13 am
hamba2han hamba2han is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
Oh my, there are so many discrepancies in the Quran it would be impossible to list them all in one simple message.
This post from the thread is my reply to these "discrepancies" that the detractors of Islam are pointing to.
  #53  
Old Dec 25, '07, 10:21 am
De Maria De Maria is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamba2han View Post
This post from the thread is my reply to these "discrepancies" that the detractors of Islam are pointing to.
Your link above says, among other things:

...What would be the point in spending the time and effort engaging in such a practice when one can easily go to these websites and read all the accusations and all of their corresponding refutations on the opposing website? ...

But that point is moot, because although there are many, I isolated one discrepancy. The Quran teaches that the world is flat. There is no rebuttal possible because it is plainly spoken in the Quran. Mohammed taught that the world was flat as a bed.

Sincerely,

De Maria
  #54  
Old Dec 25, '07, 12:41 pm
inJESUS inJESUS is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DLC View Post
Why did God chose to interrupt the natural course of event in this way?
this is one of the questions of which i still haven't had a convincing response. The common answer you get is : it was a miracle.

Logical questions follow : 1-done by who? and to prove what if it was seen by no one nor can it be proved by anyone?

no answer till now after years of discussions.
  #55  
Old Dec 25, '07, 6:33 pm
swariffin swariffin is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
Your link above says, among other things:

...What would be the point in spending the time and effort engaging in such a practice when one can easily go to these websites and read all the accusations and all of their corresponding refutations on the opposing website? ...

But that point is moot, because although there are many, I isolated one discrepancy. The Quran teaches that the world is flat. There is no rebuttal possible because it is plainly spoken in the Quran. Mohammed taught that the world was flat as a bed.

Sincerely,

De Maria
Dear DeMaria,

Let us not blame Muhammad if he thought that the earth is flat. He was correct within his time frame. The wrong thing is when other people (not just the muslims) think the earth is flat in current time frame. The other wrong thing is when people (not just the muslims) think that Muhammad is correct regardless of time frame regarding the shape of the earth, just because it is written in his book.
  #56  
Old Dec 25, '07, 7:46 pm
paarsurrey paarsurrey is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swariffin View Post
The wrong thing is when other people (not just the muslims) think the earth is flat in current time frame.
Hi

Quran/Islam/Muhammad do not say that the earth is flat. Kindly quote from Quran.

Thanks
  #57  
Old Dec 25, '07, 7:53 pm
dolphinlove dolphinlove is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamba2han View Post
There is an objective way to test and ascertain the truth of the Qur'an.

However, you need to read all of the relevant posts in the entire thread in order for you to determine for yourself whether or not the Qur'an is truly what it claims to be i.e. the literal Speech of God.
You were thoroughly debunked in that thread as well dear Hamba!
nice try!
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Mat 7 14 but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15 'Beware of false prophets who come to you disguised as sheep but underneath are ravenous wolves. 16 You will be able to tell them by their fruits.
  #58  
Old Dec 25, '07, 10:16 pm
Rapida Rapida is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Wow. As thr Catholic half of a well-functioning interfaith marriage to a Muslim, I feel, out of a sense of protectiveness for my Husband and his people, the need for my first post to address this question as kindly, and succinctly as possible. So, point by point:

I hope some intellectual muslim could answer us on this.

Muhammad was born without a father and his mother died soon after he was born.
Jesus had a miraculous birth.


Not disputed by Islam at all. The stories vary a bit. Rather than a stable and a Manger, Islam teaches that Mary (or Maryam) gave birth to Jesus under a date tree that dropped fruit in her lap to sustain her and that God provided her a spring of fresh water to refresh her. But Mohammed did have a father. He was a man. His father died before he was born is all. And yes, His Mother died soon after his Birth.

Muhammad committed acts of murder, lying & pedophilia according to the hadeeths of muslim, tabari & bukhari
Jesus had impeccable character.


Well there's a hate-laden statement. Amazing how many of our own heroes could be considered murderers. The same could be said for Moses, drowning the army of the Pharoh. David murdered Goliath, under your own definition. Lying? Elaborate please.. I searched the Hadith and can't find the instance. I may be looking for the wrong thing. Pedophilia? Aisha binti Bakr (Mohammed second wife) was 9 years old at the time of her Nikkah, but the mariage was not consummated until after she had started menses.. at 11. not an uncommon practice at the time, and it is even theorized and taught that Mary herself may have been no more than 13 when she gave birth to Christ Remember people didn't have the lifespans back then they do now, and so growing up happened a LOT faster. Once a girl started her period, it was usually considered time to find her a spouse. And Mary was already betrothed to Joseph at the time of the Immaculate Conception.

Muhammad's sons all died in their infancies, allah did not save them, neither could muhammad.
Jesus healed the sick and resurrected Lazarus from death.


Everything that happens is God's Will. It was God's Will that Lazarus be resurrecteed. God does as he chooses, and we, you and I can only trust in his plan. Under Islam, God healed the sick and raised the dead. Jesus was the instrument of that. But it was God's Will. Remember God said no to Jesus too.

Muhammad was poisoned to death by a slave girl.
Jesus sacrificed Himself on the cross for mankind.


No he wasn't. Mohammed died of an illness, probably the flu or something similar.

Muhammad says to kill the enemies of allah.
Jesus taught love and healed even the soldier that sought to capture Him.


No. The Qu'ran says to not be afraid to do what you need to do to protect your faith and family and home. Jesus said to turn the other cheek. But even Jesus knew you only have two cheeks. The incident at the temple.

Jesus (according to even muslims) will one day return from the skies.
Muhammad is today still rotting in Medina.


That's right. The Qu'ran refers to Jesus as the Messiah numerous times. But under literal translation Messiah is "Annointed" and so being the Messiah to a Muslim does not necesarily mean he is the Son of God.. Let alone that he is God himself. Remember the First Commandment....No other Gods.


SO...FOR WHICH OF THESE DO MUSLIMS CALL MUHAMMAD GREATER?

None. Actually any and every Muslim I've ever spoken to has said Mohammed was just a man. As Moses was Just a man. Who lived, loved and died as a Man. But during his life was blessed to carry a message from God. Jesus is the Messiah. Two very different categories.

PLUS... SINCE WHEN IS HAVING SEX WITH A BIOLOGICALLY UNDERAGED GIRL OF 9 YEAR OLD FAIL TO QUALIFY AS PEDOPHILIA?

You know I always hate seeing this statement because ignorant hate mongerers use it to inflame other people. Firstly he did not have sex with a 9 year old. Aisha was 11 when her mariage to Mohammed was consummated.. after she started her menses... which was typical for the time period. Secondly, man.. just grow up.
http://www.free-minds.org

By the way the Qu'ran says some lovely things about marriage, and one that I take to heart "Be a Garment unto each other." I protect him and he protects me. I make sure he prays each day. He makes sure I get to Mass. He guards my faith as steadfastly as I do his. And seeing a forum for Catholics, who are suposed to be living in his example, spreading hate like this is.. disappointing to say the least.

By the way, Mohammed did meet a Catholic Monk when he was 12. A justification my Husband used to attend Midnight Mass with me yesterday. "If it's good enough for the Prophet, it's good enough for me."
  #59  
Old Dec 25, '07, 11:15 pm
planten planten is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
Here's another great link which shows that the Quran is NOT the Word of God:
http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/debate/part2.htm

Sincerely,

De Maria
You may have your ideas. But I can tell you that the Quran is the only word of God (kalaam Allah). There is no other book in the world which is the word or speech of God. I am sure you cannot show from the bible that it is the speech of God. Please Give any verse of the bible which says that it is the speech of God.

But same can be shown to you from the Quran. Quran claims to be the speech (kalaam) of God. It claims to be in a clear Arabic language. Does bible tell you in which language it is revealed? In which language God revealed it.

I am not denying the truth of the material of bible. I am only considering the words of the bible (not the contents).
  #60  
Old Dec 26, '07, 2:08 am
swariffin swariffin is offline
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Default Re: Why Is Muhammad The Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paarsurrey View Post
Hi

Quran/Islam/Muhammad do not say that the earth is flat. Kindly quote from Quran.

Thanks
Dear Paarsurrey,

I think that you misunderstood me. Please re-read my posting. I was saying that anybody saying the earth is flat in our current time frame is wrong. I even ask DeMaria not to blame Muhammad for saying the earth is flat. At year 600's nobody think the earth is round, I believe.
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