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  #1  
Old Jan 9, '08, 10:03 pm
belgianwaffles9 belgianwaffles9 is offline
 
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Default Monsignori Cassock Color

I am confused about what color cassock a Monsignor is permitted to wear... The Monsignor at the National Shrine wears the cassock of a bishop (http://www.nationalshrine.com/site/p...6OTG&b=680975), but the Monsignor at the Cathedral near my college does not.

Is there any sort of standard for what mosnignori HAVE to wear, or are the just allowed to wear something a bit more "special" if they want to?
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  #2  
Old Jan 9, '08, 10:53 pm
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgianwaffles9 View Post
I am confused about what color cassock a Monsignor is permitted to wear... The Monsignor at the National Shrine wears the cassock of a bishop (http://www.nationalshrine.com/site/p...6OTG&b=680975), but the Monsignor at the Cathedral near my college does not.

Is there any sort of standard for what mosnignori HAVE to wear, or are the just allowed to wear something a bit more "special" if they want to?
From this website:
Quote:
The Protonotary Apostolic is conferred predominantly on priests who serve on seven specific positions in the Roman Curia. These are referred to as Protonotaries of Number. Aside from these seven, the honor of Protonotary Apostolic can also be conferred on priests outside of the Roman Curia. These are called Protonotaries Apostolic Supernumerary. A Protonotary Apostolic wears a black cassock with red buttons and piping along with a fuchsia sash. A fuchsia cape can also be worn on special occasions.
The second grade of monsignor is the Prelate of Honor to His Holiness. This grade was historically associated with the chamberlain of the papal court and today can also be conferred to priests outside of the papal court. A Prelate of Honor to His Holiness, during liturgies, wears a bishop’s choir cassock, which is fuchsia in color with red buttons, piping and cuffs, and a fuchsia sash. Prelates of Honor to His Holiness may also wear a bishop’s black cassock, which also has red buttons, piping and a fuchsia sash.
The third grade of monsignor is the Chaplain to His Holiness. This honor can be conferred to priests inside or outside of the Roman Curia. A Chaplain to His Holiness wears a black cassock with fuchsia piping and buttons along with a fuchsia sash.
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  #3  
Old Jan 10, '08, 8:47 am
belgianwaffles9 belgianwaffles9 is offline
 
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

Thanks. So they do get to wear the Bishop's Cassock. Are Prelates of Honor to His Holiness the only ones who may wear the bishop's choir dress as well as the normal cassock?
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  #4  
Old Jan 11, '08, 4:26 am
Resurrexit Resurrexit is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

Quote:
Originally Posted by belgianwaffles9 View Post
Thanks. So they do get to wear the Bishop's Cassock. Are Prelates of Honor to His Holiness the only ones who may wear the bishop's choir dress as well as the normal cassock?
No, the grades above (Protonotory Apostolic) may also wear this. I know such a Msgr. - his cassock is almost as cool as his feriola.
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  #5  
Old Jan 13, '08, 6:37 am
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Chatter163 Chatter163 is offline
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Lightbulb Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

A monsignor's choir cassock is purple; his house cassock is black with purple piping.
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  #6  
Old Jan 13, '08, 8:24 am
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

When I was growing up, my pastor was a monsignor. He also wore fuschia socks.
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  #7  
Old Jan 13, '08, 8:30 am
AJV AJV is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

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Originally Posted by lak611 View Post
When I was growing up, my pastor was a monsignor. He also wore fuschia socks.
I think the coloured socks were removed for monsigori in 1969. In a way I'm disappointed though I suppose some of the sock supply problems of the monsignor must have been solved.
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  #8  
Old Jan 13, '08, 8:52 am
lak611 lak611 is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

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I think the coloured socks were removed for monsigori in 1969. In a way I'm disappointed though I suppose some of the sock supply problems of the monsignor must have been solved.
He still wore them in the 1970's. I was born in 1969. Maybe the socks were still allowed for monsignori who already had the title prior to 1969.
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  #9  
Old Jan 13, '08, 1:39 pm
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Thumbs up Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

Yes, the pontificals worn by Monsignori were simplified considerably in 1968 with Pontificalis Domus. But those who already enjoyed the privileges retained them in most cases.
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  #10  
Old Jan 15, '08, 7:26 pm
mystified mystified is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

A few years ago I encountered a priest I had not seen in a very long time. Observing his cassock, I asked when he had become a monsignor.
He said he was not a monsignor, but a canon. I'd never seen a Catholic canon, except from religious orders.
I have noticed that the various Anglilcan branches use this title, but don't know what it means nor what they wear.
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  #11  
Old Jan 18, '08, 7:56 am
Andreas Hofer Andreas Hofer is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

Canons are (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03252a.htm) members of a chapter of clerics, and while I typically think of cathedral chapters - the groups of priests responsible for the public worship of the cathedral and often acting as the bishop's senate - I would say the main distinguishing mark of them is that they are responsible for liturgy. An example of non-cathedral canons would be the Norbertines (Praemonstratensians).

Chapters of canons often acquired special privileges in dress over the years, so they tend to have eccentricities you wouldn't see most anywhere else (like wearing mitres, assisting in choir in copes, etc.).
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  #12  
Old Jan 19, '08, 1:46 am
StDominicSavio StDominicSavio is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

The general norm for canons is the dress of Protonotaries Supranumerary (see Iak611's original post)
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  #13  
Old Feb 13, '10, 6:18 pm
alwell alwell is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

I have noticed that many of the older garments are again being worn, especially outside of Rome. The Pope's brother was named a Protonotary supernumary - long after the use of the mantelleta was ended - yet, wears one. These are again for sale, being made by companies that specialise in such clothing. The red and purple stockings are likewise available. I saw a site that sold these (first time I ever saw these for sale) for abour $20/pr. The Roman hats are gaining use as well - the first time I have seen them being used outside of Europe. Rochets, which were removed from minor prelatial usage, are again being used by them, while Bishops frequently use the surplice. The irony is that Bishops are to use the rochet, and monsignori the surplice. I have not noticed any use of the old lace albs, but these are for sale as well. It seems that today the use this and that with this and that colour is norm - and most laity are none the wiser to spot this.
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  #14  
Old Feb 13, '10, 6:33 pm
benedictgal benedictgal is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJV View Post
I think the coloured socks were removed for monsigori in 1969. In a way I'm disappointed though I suppose some of the sock supply problems of the monsignor must have been solved.
Do you have a citation for this? When I called two clerical apparel stores (EuroClero and ARS-REGIS), they told me that they sold the monsignori socks (magenta). I specifically stated that my friend was not a vescovo (bishop), but, a monsignor and they told me that he could wear them. I wound up buying him two pair, one in wool and one in cotton. Since his silver jubilee is coming up, I am wondering if I should talk to him about getting the monsignor choir dress. He is a chaplain to his holiness.
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  #15  
Old Feb 13, '10, 9:44 pm
AJV AJV is offline
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Default Re: Monsignori Cassock Color

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Originally Posted by benedictgal View Post
Do you have a citation for this? When I called two clerical apparel stores (EuroClero and ARS-REGIS), they told me that they sold the monsignori socks (magenta). I specifically stated that my friend was not a vescovo (bishop), but, a monsignor and they told me that he could wear them. I wound up buying him two pair, one in wool and one in cotton. Since his silver jubilee is coming up, I am wondering if I should talk to him about getting the monsignor choir dress. He is a chaplain to his holiness.
The Instruction Ut sive of 1969 removes them (n. 19). Mind you, I've regularly seen cases where Ut sive and following instructions are flouted. Or at least, appears to be flouted, though those concerned may have renewed privileges or holding onto them. I haven't seen any canons wearing the grey mozettas with violet piping prescribed.

Without casting doubts on the stores, there are only a limited number of bishops in the world. And from my meager experience, not many are concerned with wearing purple socks. Also, as lak's post mentioned above, after Ut sive, a chaplain to his Holiness is no longer entitled to the purple cassock choir dress, but a purple trimmed black one, with a purple sash.

Last edited by AJV; Feb 13, '10 at 9:55 pm.
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