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  #1  
Old Nov 7, '04, 2:12 pm
NanaGigi NanaGigi is offline
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Question Confirmation Before Marriage?

A Catholic must be baptized and confirmed in the Church before being married in the church or having a marriage convalidated in the church, correct? We have two RCIA "Catholics" who were not confirmed and were married in a civil ceremony. I think I am right here in saying that they must be confirmed before a convalidation can take place. Please advise all you wise ones.

Gigi
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  #2  
Old Nov 7, '04, 2:55 pm
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tee_eff_em tee_eff_em is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

One must be baptized to be Catholic. Canon 1065 sez
Quote:
Can. 1065 1 Catholics who have not yet received the sacrament of confirmation are to receive it before being admitted to marriage, if this can be done without grave inconvenience.
But I'm not sure to whom the judgement of "grave inconvenience" belongs, the pastor or the ordinary?

Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'RCIA "Catholics"'?

Finally, I am not a canon lawyer.

tee
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  #3  
Old Nov 7, '04, 3:04 pm
NanaGigi NanaGigi is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'RCIA "Catholics"'?

There were both baptized Catholic, one was confirmed, married in a civil ceremony. It would appear that his not being confirmed is the only impediment to convalidation of the marriage.

Gigi
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  #4  
Old Nov 7, '04, 3:55 pm
mjdonnelly mjdonnelly is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

sounds like it would be valid, just not sacramental
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  #5  
Old Nov 7, '04, 6:04 pm
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is online now
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

If both have been baptized the marriage, when convalidated, will be sacramental.

The priests here will marry anyone who is preparing for Confirmation without hesitation.. We usually do a convalidation as soon at the paperwork is in order.
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  #6  
Old Nov 7, '04, 6:24 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NanaGigi
A Catholic must be baptized and confirmed in the Church before being married in the church or having a marriage convalidated in the church, correct? We have two RCIA "Catholics" who were not confirmed and were married in a civil ceremony. I think I am right here in saying that they must be confirmed before a convalidation can take place. Please advise all you wise ones.

Gigi
I would recomend as Catholics returning to the Faith through the RCIA process that they wait until after returning to full communion. Meaning after Reconcilaition and Confirmation. The Marriage can be Convalidated any time after or even at the same ceremony. This way the 6 month pre-marriage requirement can also be satisfied.
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  #7  
Old Nov 8, '04, 7:47 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

If they are baptized, whether Catholic or not, with water and the trinitarian formula, and married in a civil ceremony they must have the marriage convalidated before they can receive communion and/or confirmation. If Catholics were married in a non-Catholic religious ceremony, defects of form must be remedied before reception of the other sacraments.

If neither has been married before it is a straightforward process called convalidation. They should make and appointment with the priest or deacon immediately and take care of this before the Easter season. They can be taking their preparation classes in the meantime, but until they are married by the church they are living in an objective state of sin, must make their confession and be married before being admitted to the other sacraments.

If either partner has been married before, in a civil or religious ceremony, they must pursue the possibility of annulment before they can procede further. do not delay, this can take anywhere from 8-9 months to 2 years or more depending on circumstances.

in the very beginning of the RCIA or sacramental preparation process, preferably at the initial interview, the marriage situation should be discussed and a referral to the pastor made and progress begun toward sacramental marriage. It is very cruel to allow people to progress to Lent and Easter and ignore this aspect. It is also a topic too complex for a DRE or lay RCIA director to deal with and needs someone specifically trained in church law and procedure on marriage.

For Catholics (never married) who are engaged, they should be prepared and receive communion and confirmation before marriage, if possible. We have several couples in the preparation process who receive first communion at their nuptial Mass, continue the class, and then are confirmed during the Easter season.
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  #8  
Old Nov 9, '04, 11:58 am
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is online now
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzleannie
If they are baptized, whether Catholic or not, with water and the trinitarian formula, and married in a civil ceremony they must have the marriage convalidated before they can receive communion and/or confirmation. If Catholics were married in a non-Catholic religious ceremony, defects of form must be remedied before reception of the other sacraments.
. . .
Marriage between baptized non-Catholics, who were not previously married, are presumed valid and sacramental until proven otherwise. No convalidation is required.

Marriage between non-Catholics, who were not previously married, where one or both are unbaptized are presumed valid but non-sacramental. The marriage becomes sacramental upon baptism of the unbaptized parties. No convalidation is required.
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  #9  
Old Nov 10, '04, 8:01 am
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Kelley
Marriage between baptized non-Catholics, who were not previously married, are presumed valid and sacramental until proven otherwise. No convalidation is required.

Marriage between non-Catholics, who were not previously married, where one or both are unbaptized are presumed valid but non-sacramental. The marriage becomes sacramental upon baptism of the unbaptized parties. No convalidation is required.
not if it was a civil marriage, a civil marriage is neither valid nor sacramental, and convalidation is necessary
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Old Nov 10, '04, 11:47 am
Joe Kelley Joe Kelley is online now
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzleannie
not if it was a civil marriage, a civil marriage is neither valid nor sacramental, and convalidation is necessary
Do you have a reference for that? Our diocese must be doing it all wrong.
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  #11  
Old Nov 11, '04, 5:06 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

just our diocesan guidelines, and our training, which makes it clear the couple must resolve marriage issues before receiving the sacraments. the confusion and need to be extremely careful with applying general standards to individual situations is exactly why I leave all this up to the deacon in charge of marriage preparation, instead of getting into it myself. 90 % of the adults in our programs are Catholics in civil marriages who need convalidation before they can receive communion and/or confirmation, so the practice is to convalidate all civil marriages. It is necessary for the deacon do interview extensively, over a period of time, to ascertain the full facts about the marriage, since it often comes out that one or both parties was married before and they didn't think it necessary to mention.
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  #12  
Old Nov 15, '04, 12:29 pm
John Joseph John Joseph is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

"A Catholic must be baptized and confirmed in the Church before being married in the church or having a marriage convalidated in the church, correct?"

Baptized, yes. Confirmed, no, but strongly recommended.

http://www.marriagepreparation.com/Confirmation.htm
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  #13  
Old Nov 15, '04, 1:32 pm
Br. Rich SFO Br. Rich SFO is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by puzzleannie
just our diocesan guidelines, and our training, which makes it clear the couple must resolve marriage issues before receiving the sacraments. the confusion and need to be extremely careful with applying general standards to individual situations is exactly why I leave all this up to the deacon in charge of marriage preparation, instead of getting into it myself. 90 % of the adults in our programs are Catholics in civil marriages who need convalidation before they can receive communion and/or confirmation, so the practice is to convalidate all civil marriages. It is necessary for the deacon do interview extensively, over a period of time, to ascertain the full facts about the marriage, since it often comes out that one or both parties was married before and they didn't think it necessary to mention.
"Resolving Marriage issues" and "Convalidating a Marriage"/"Contracting a Marriage" are two different things.
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Old Nov 15, '04, 4:41 pm
puzzleannie puzzleannie is offline
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Default Re: Confirmation Before Marriage?

many thanks to Bro, deacon and others who corrected me, I have been researching this for a couple of days, but couldn't find the thread again.

I searched all relevant answers hear and CA homepage, CUF, Catholicexchange and any other link I could find, while I was trying to get hold of somebody from the diocese to give a definitive answer on who needs convalidation and when they need it. Talked to everyone I know who does RCIA in their parish, the deacon who helps me, and the person who trained me. There is a priest assigned to RCIA and liturgy, and another assigned to marriage & tribunal, plus a family life office, but they are new to their assignments and have not had time to get back to me yet.

What I found is this-- there is not one written guideline or book for all of this stuff. The sacramental guidelines in print were put out under the old bishop, and not considered entirely reliable. My pastor pointed out several problems with them. We have just concluded a diocesan synod and results are being written up and published, so we have to wait for new sacramental and RCIA written guidelines, but they hope this will result in full implementation of RICA and standardization of practices among parishes.
bottom line: every parish is on their own, and if you ask 10 people a question you get 10 different answers.

another complication is that if people don't like what you tell them they try to go over the border to Mexico to get baptism or other sacraments for themselves or their kids.

I only have to worry about my parish, and my original insticts are right, refer all adults in RCIA to the deacon for a pastoral interview, including questions on marriage situations and let him resolve it. All I need to know is what I need to know to get the paperwork straight. another good argument for not letting DRE, parish secretary or catechist give opinions on what are properly pastoral concerns.

It seems the most common practice is that when one or both members of a couple are baptized, and approach us for full communion or sacraments, they are counselled and urged to convalidate or bless or whatever as soon as possible, but definitely before receiving communion and or confirmation. It also seems that unbaptized couples who enter the church request a church wedding, but whether that is actually a marriage ceremony or simply renewing vows I don't know since it hasn't happened on my watch.
We also teach on and prepare for confession early in the process for all baptized adults so they can take advantage of this sacrament as soon as they feel ready.

The discussions on catechetical and RCIA topics on these forums are worth the price of admission, and my profound thanks to all who participate.
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